Traveller-digest     Thursday, January 1 1998     Volume 1997 : Number 2191



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Cylons in TNE
Re: GURPS Traveller
Re: Freelance Traveller redesign assistance; FAQ update; Traveller promotion ideas?; Team Traveller?
Re: Traveller Anime
Re:FAQ update
Re: Oops!
Re: Freelance Traveller redesign assistance; FAQ update; Traveller promotion ideas?; Team Traveller?
Re: GURPS Traveller
Intros
Re: Flame wars & other disagreements
Re: Oops!
Re: Ship Design systems
RE: Water Closets of the Far Future!
Re: Ship Design systems
Re: Ship Design systems
Re: Layout of charts and tables
Re: Startrek Architect's Manual?
Re: >*field mice*.
Re: >*field mice*.
Re: >*field mice*.
Re: Active sensors

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 19:22:37 -0800
From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Cylons in TNE

>In-Reply-To: <v03110703b0cf705b166b@[207.220.32.141]>
>
>Zane,
>
>> The ship's though are rougher, they're non-jump capable I'd say, but
>> Battlestar Galactica was always pretty vague about the ship specs, and
>> distances traveled.
>
>Everything was very small (the standard unit of distance was the
>micron...)
>
>BBC2 is repeating BG at the moment. It's even worse than I remembered.
>______________________________________________________________________
>Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
> "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

Am I correct in guessing you don't like "Blakes 7", or "Doctor Who" either?
Personally I think they're some of the greatest Sci-Fi shows ever, they're
all plagued with serious inconsistences though.  But then I like "Lost in
Space" (at least the first 6 episodes), so my taste in Sci-Fi might be
suspect :^)

				Zane


| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/                       |
| For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them.    |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html            |

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 19:06:03 -0800
From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller

>> I'd too would like to see the Metric system continued, but unfortunatly I
>> suspect it will end up with yards, pounds, etc.  This is one thing, that
>> isn't _really that important_ in the great scheme of things for
>Traveller,
>> but could really mess up even the Basic GURPS rules.
>
>From someone involved in the GURPS conversions, I learned that they will go
>with the English system.  They think that it is very Travelleresque
>(although how they came to this conclusion I'll never know).  The metric
>system is much more intuitive, but I guess they feel that consistency with
>other GURPS material is more important.  Maybe they are right!
>Inconsistency is the hobgoblin that has ruined more good RPG's than
>anything else.

I will say that this won't be as confusing using the GURPS measurements for
something like GURPS Tekumel (this was in their magazine, not a book).
While I prefer Metric (and I'm American) I'm used to having to convert
between the two, so as I said above it's not that important.

				Zane

| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/                       |
| For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them.    |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html            |

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 19:33:03 -0800
From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Freelance Traveller redesign assistance; FAQ update; Traveller promotion ideas?; Team Traveller?

>(a) I'd like to get away from the black background.  The problem
>with black backgrounds is that it takes light text to be readable
>- and if someone decides to print the page to a color inkjet (the
>most common type of printer in home use at present), it's going
>to look disgusting at best, unreadable at worst.

Yes, PLEASE!  I Feal quite strongly that any web page with content that
anyone might want to print out should have black lettering (having said
that he pauses with a frown on his face, and thinks, "doesn't my Traveller
section have a black background on part of it").  There is nothing more
irritating that going to a web page full of technical info that I need, and
not being able to print it out!

>(c) I would prefer to avoid being heavy on graphics or embedded
>files, including Java applets.  My ISP's home page is
>chock-a-block with graphics and animations and Java applets; the
>damn thing takes an unconscionably long time to load over a 28.8
>connection.  The whole world ain't on 56K or better, yet.  Again,
>that doesn't mean that I'm unwilling to use them, just that I
>don't want to go overboard.  Glitz for the sake of glitz is sort
>of against my religion.  Glitz that either increases the
>informational content or increases the _professionalism_ of the
>look is OK.

Again I say, YES, PLEASE.  For one thing remember some people are surfing
the web with computers that can't even see this stuff, and in some cases
can't access the pages that have it.  Not everyone is running Windows 95 on
a
Pentium II with ungodly amounts of RAM, etc.  Some people either due to
preferance or not being able to afford anything else are running systems
that don't support Jave, or animated GIF's, or Frames, etc.  Keep it simple
and it will load fast, and everyone can enjoy it.  I'm not saying skip
graphics though, sorry those people browsing the Web on their Commodore
64's using Lynx (I'm not joking), or something simular, will have to suffer
wondering what thier missing.  Animated GIF's really aren't a problem, but
Frames and Java can be.

				Zane


| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/                       |
| For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them.    |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html            |

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 19:58:38 -0800 (PST)
From: "John R. Snead" <jsnead@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Anime

Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com> wrote:

>I don't particularly like giant robots, either - so I avoid anime that
>features them (I'm currently watching Neon Genesis Evangelion 
>_despite_ the giant robot mecha, rather than because of them).
>On the other hand, there is some anime that I think has 
>"travelleresque" elements.  Take a look at:

>Mighty Space Miners
>My Youth in Arcadia
>Be Forever Yamato
>Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind
>Laputa: Castle in the Sky 
>Super Atragon
>Wings of Honnemaise 
>Crusher Joe
>Lensman
>Starship Troopers (*)

Also take a look at "Sol Bianca"
and especially "They Were Eleven"

- -John Snead jsnead@netcom.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 15:08:19 +1100
From: Jason Anderson <midnight@kagi.com>
Subject: Re:FAQ update

>>(d) What other companies currently have Traveller licenses, and what have
>>they published?
>
>Don't know, and damn little!  Gold Rush Game *had* a licence and talked
>about a suppliment..did they ever publish it?

I emailed them a few weeks ago to ask them what the status was of their
supplements. Here's part of the response I got:


>  The Traveller supplements we were planning to release are currently in
>limbo. Because of negotiations originally between us and Marc Miller, and then
>later between us and Imperium Games, and now involving a third party... things
>got a little "complex."
>
>  We expect to have some good news to report in the near future, however.
>Until then, we cannot give you any kind of projected release date on these
>products.


I have no idea who the third party is, or if they ever will publish
something. Here's hopping though!

Cheers,
Jason

- -------
Beyond Midnight Software                               <midnight@kagi.com>
                                      <http://www.vision.net.au/~midnight>

             If it's not on fire then it's a software problem.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 20:05:37 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Oops!

> Hello Folks,
>   The formulas post was mistakenly sent to this list when it should have
> been sent to Mr Miller as a private missive.
>   I apologize for having made such a mistake and am embarassed by it.
> <DURNED CONFUSING TECHNOLOGY!> <grin>.
> 
>   Oh well, until I goof this bad another time...
> 
> 

no problem, I saved the formulas because I thought they would be useful
in upgrading my solarsystem generating program.  Specifically, I was
having troubles with the 'black body' formula in determining surface
temperatures of various planets in orbit around a primary.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 20:21:02 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Freelance Traveller redesign assistance; FAQ update; Traveller promotion ideas?; Team Traveller?

> In either event, I strongly encourage all authors to note that there are
> people who find IE4 and NS4 so terribly feature bloated that we use the old
> versions by choice, and that we often want the goodies on your pages.
> Also, I am quite capable of setting font choices in my browser, and if you
> choose to use frames to force how I will see your page, then the font
> choices I make for maximum reading comprehension will become
> counterproductive.
> 
> (I like my monitor at a very high resolution with large font sizes, as I
> have poor eyesight, but I like crisp graphics.  Programs where I can view
> at 200%, or can change the default font, often work better.  Most browsers
> are very good at this, unless frames are used to artificially limit the
> size of some graphical elements.)
> 

Well Scott, my page is designed to run under Netscape Communicator 4.xx,
mainly because that is all that I have to view it from.  My Internet
Explorer 3.02 crashes on the Java that Geocities built into my site,
however Explorer 4.0 can read it with no problem.

The command I use to put midi on my site is a Netscape only command,
I've found out by accident.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 20:34:45 -0800
From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller

>>>Retorical questions..
>>>
>>>Will we also need GURPS Space, Martial Arts, Ultra Tech I & II, and
>>>Vehicles? Not to mention Copendium I and II!
>
>>This might be a Retorical question, but I can't let it pass.  What makes
>>you _THINK_ that you will need these?
>
>Sheeze, Zane!  Don't get your trousers in a twist, I was only half
>serious..if that.

Eris, don't mind me.  I think I got a little out of hand when I answered
that one last night, and owe you an apology.  I've just seen a few to many
people saying how terrible of a thing GURPS Traveller is.

>I've always been of the opinion that you don't need *any* books to run a
>rpg, but they can sure be useful.  Ok, I'll answer your objections as
>seriously as I can on New Year's Eve. ;->

Sounds like my style of running Traveller, no rules, just the setting and
character generation.  Because of this style I like in depth character
generation, and I think GURPS is pretty decent for this.

>>Take a look at GURPS Lensman for example, it's a Space setting, but it
>>doen't need or even want GURPS Space.
>
>Can't, it's out of print.  [Sorry, couldn't help myself] ;->

Good point, I was doing good to get my copy used.

>You, of course, don't *have* to buy them, but I think SJG really wants you
>to desire them.  Not, that there's anything wrong with that!

Another good point, but then of the books you mentioned I've already got
them with the exception of Martial Arts and Vehicles.  I don't care about
Martial Arts, and I _WANT_ Vehicles 2nd Ed., but can't find it.

Besides you failed two mention the Space Atlases.  Those are HARD to find
(I'm still hunting for #4) but I bought them originally to use with
Traveller.  Also there is GURPS Aliens, and the Space Bestiary (probably
both out of print).  The thing about GURPS that really sucks is that there
are so many good books, and most are out of print.

>I disagree about dropping EDU, though.  We probably disagree on what EDU is
>measuring.  I use it as the "scholarship" attribute in a group of four
>mental attributes (REAsoning, EDUcation, CHArisma, WILl) that match up with
>the four physical attributes (STRength, CONstitution, DEXterity, AGiLity).
>Remember, I'm a heretic and I always do things my own way.  ;->

I'd say EDU should be a cost modifier for certain skills, in fact I think
the Hero Games system did this.  However, I also think this is something
you should have to buy.  OK, based on that, it's probably best to have it
as an Attribute, since IIRC attributes and skills are bought from separate
point pools.

>>One thing I'm really hoping for is that they keep our Tech Levels as the
>>GURPS Tech Levels seem a bit odd when talking about Traveller.
>
>I don't like the implementation of either TL (surprise! surprise!).  Both
>need to have more steps, spreading out the details...so there!

I won't deny that the Traveller TL implementation has serious faults!
However, I consider it to be solidly a part of Traveller.

>>Face it, GURPS Traveller IS NOT THE END OF THE WORLD!
>
>Sheeze!  There you go again.  I *said* I liked GURPS..really! ;->

Hey, like I said, I got a little spun up last night.  Besides it wasn't
really pointed at you so much as everyone that's been moaning about GURPS
Traveller.

>Ah, a pox on all you doomsayers!  Traveller isn't in danger of
>disappearing.  Even if it where completely out of publication, it would
>live on as long as we talk about and play games we call Traveller.  I'm not

True.

>Now, go out and have a happy new year,

Now that sounds like a good idea!

			Zane


| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/                       |
| For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them.    |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html            |

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 20:52:49 +0000
From: "Tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@sprynet.com>
Subject: Intros

Just wanted to pop in a intro myself before I lurk away :)

My name is greg, and I have been playing traveller since the Big 
Hardback Book :)

Hope to learn and stuff here.. <giggle>


Cya L8tr
************************************************************************
tykoduk@sprynet.com       http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/tsykoduk/

186,000 Miles Per Second;
Not only a good idea, it's the law!

************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 18:42:17 +0000
From: "Suzette C. Dollar" <suzd@pop.goodnet.com>
Subject: Re: Flame wars & other disagreements

> Hmmm. Right. Is it me or is the list getting a bit hysterical?

In repetitive cycles, I'm afraid. I nearly left the list the last 
time around. 

Suz 

Suzette C. Dollar
#Traveller Channel Manager
suzd@goodnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 01:03:06 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Oops!

> From: HAL <hal@buffnet.net>
> 
> Hello Folks,
>   The formulas post was mistakenly sent to this list when it should have
> been sent to Mr Miller as a private missive.
>   I apologize for having made such a mistake and am embarassed by it.
> <DURNED CONFUSING TECHNOLOGY!> <grin>.
> 
>   Oh well, until I goof this bad another time...
> 
> 
>        Hal


I think I can speak for all of us in saying that you are forgiven.  We all
make mistakes from time to time.  If this is the worst we get from you,
you'll have no complaints from us.

Richard for the gang.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 02:48:38 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Ship Design systems

In a message dated 98-01-01 02:42:57 EST, you write:

<< Yes.  Great idea.  One suggestion - include in the checklist some helpful
 information, like the following:
 
 "Hull size:
 
 Select a hull size appropriate for your task.  Single man or two man ships
<snip>
  >>

Your text suggested for a checklist is more properly included in the text of
the chapter itself. A checklist can't have paragraphs of text within it...
instead it must be a very basic driver of the process.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 02:16:45 -0500 (EST)
From: neo@total.net (Glenn Grant)
Subject: RE: Water Closets of the Far Future!

Anders Backman said,

>In pre revolution France (and the rest of europe as well) enemas was the
>current rage for curing various illnesss among the rich. Lady Antoinette
>even held her audiences while receiving enemas!

Bizarre behavior made slightly more explicable when you consider that these
were often coffee and/or tobacco enemas - a very much more effective way to
get more caffeine or nicotine into your system quickly than through the
stomach. The French aristocracy were thus hooked on these 'colonics'.

>Well perhaps we should change the subject...

Good idea. Certain twisted souls around here might start getting ideas...

Glenn

    -----------------------Glenn Grant-----------------------  
                         <neo@total.net>
    Web: <http://helios.physics.utoronto.ca:8080/ggrant.html>
        "...a starship, a robot, two sex toys, and a gun:
      the raw, heady essence of interstellar civilization."
                        --Kenji Schwarz

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 02:49:49 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Ship Design systems

In a message dated 98-01-01 02:42:57 EST, you write:

<< >4. Supported by a reasonable format for the ship card / USP so one can
 >understand what that means, and
 
 Though ship cards are not enough for a product like starships - we need to
 see the detailed design, as well as the summary card.  For play purposes,
 summary cards are fine.  >>


I agree that we need BOTH a form to be filled out and to record the design
process, AND a ship card which is sufficient for the resolution of combat.

Marc Miller

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 02:51:41 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Ship Design systems

In a message dated 98-01-01 02:42:57 EST, you write:

<< >1. Integrated with the combat system (in the sense that the combat system
has
 >to be understandable so people know what poarts to put in their ship).
 
 Fully agreed.  Not knowing how ships fight, even roughly, makes it
 pointless to design them.  Is an armor rating of 100 enough to stp a PAW
 100 cold, stop it half the time, or once only?  How about a 99, or a 101,
 or a 120?  Do systems degrade, or do they die on the first hit?
 
 If we know the answers to these, then we can build ships in virtually any
 design system, as long as they evaluate to the same ship cards.  >>

More even than what you say. Plaers need an understanding of what the sensors
will do, and how (many don't know the difference between active and passive
sensors, etc).

AND, the design system needs to tell about design philosophies rather than
guide a player through a design process without preface or discussion.

Marc Miller

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 02:04:31 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Layout of charts and tables

> From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject: Re: Layout of charts and tables
> Date: Wednesday, December 31, 1997 8:29 PM
> 
> In a message dated 97-12-31 14:09:09 EST, you write:
> 
> << 
>  IMHO the best layout is (very) minimal text and lotsa tables in a 
>  suitably intuitive order for the actual design sequence. Gloss text and 
>  tech explainations are in a separate chapter.
>  
>   >>
> I echo your sentiments. Most people who have seen the draft T4.1 character
> generation material have had no difficulty understanding it, even though the
> material is ALL charts with no accompanying text.
> 
> The problem is this this: the current method for writing role-playing material
> (Traveller, others) is to start at the beginning and follow a stream of
> consciousness through to the end, much like writing a novel. That includes
> ship design, which starts with the hull and then proceeds to the drives,
> weaponry, and accomodations., etc.
> 
> As a player, I read the material once, and then turn to the charts when I need
> to know answers. If I need detailed answers, I may reread the text.
> 
> What I want as a player is to be able to turn to the charts and understand
> them and what is required of me. Read the T4.0 charts for space combat and
> tell me you understand how to do the process. What does A P J mean (for one
> example)?
> 
> Similarly, space combat pre-supposes the player knows how ships are built. And
> ship building pre-supposes the player knows what equipment and weapons do.
> 
> The ideal format is a set of charts that walks the player through the process,
> defining or explaining any items that need explaining. If combat ranges are
> involved, the chart should be included, even if the data is already provided
> elsewhere.
> 
> What this involves is the WRITER laying out the charts in final format, as
> charts in two or three column format, and then playing with them to ensure
> that they work. THEN, the WRITER needs to create the proper forms for
> recording the material, and checklists that carry the player through the
> process.
> 
> Conclusion. Charts should be separate. Some tables may need to be also in the
> text to explain or elaborate on the text, but also in the chart set.
> 
> Marc Miller

Hey Marc,

The plan outlined below sounds good to me; however, I guess you could say
I'm a gearhead.  On behalf of the gearheads, I would recommend that you
include the formula used to derive the tabular data where possible, putting
it/them in the text and at the bottom of the table or chart.

Your expectant gearhead,
Richard

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 05:35:00 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Startrek Architect's Manual?

In mail you write:

> <Court martial officer> "You do realize that this is an airlocking* offense?"
>
> *Airlocking is spacer slang for dumping someone in an airlock without suit
> and then cycling it by remote. The officer lost 2 status points for
> lowering his manner of speech to that of the crewmember.

The "standard" term for this in American SF seems to be "spacing". As
in "he was spaced", "They'll space you for this" etc.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 05:10:37 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: >*field mice*.

In mail you write:

> Ever serve a Japanese person a cheeseburger?  I can't figure out how a
> culture that considers raw fish a delicacy can turn down a nicelt aged
> cheddar.

We had a major social goof occur back in the early 80s. The company I
was working for was German owned, and they had a *lot* of techs over
here helping with startup. 

After things got going well enough for most of them to head back, it
was decided to throw a party for them before they left. It was a
barbeque. 

Everything went fine until the hostess brought out the corn on the
cob... 

Seems that in Germany corn is only fed to pigs...

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 05:04:42 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: >*field mice*.

In mail you write:

> "People on this planet put chocolate in their mouth?  And _eat_ it?"
> (blushing furiously, edging away in horrified fascination).

Right after posting my last message, I remembered something. Chocolate
is *toxic* to canines, and hence, probably to Vargr as well. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 05:01:05 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: >*field mice*.

In mail you write:

> Scott Taylor:
>
>>All going to prove that Mssr. Long's maxim about blue mud isn't always as
>>easy to follow as it would at first seem... in fact, cultural mores about
>>food may be harder to suss out and deal with than almost any others
>>(except sexual interactions).
>
> Maximize the efficiency of cultural discomfort by combining the two.
>
> "You make children eat _carrots_?  You sick, perverted bastards..."
>
> "People on this planet put chocolate in their mouth?  And _eat_ it?"
> (blushing furiously, edging away in horrified fascination).

I prefer to work it in reverse... 

The first item inspires me to consider a culture where the "sauce" for
certain items is provided at the table by specially trained
men/women... :-)

"You want me to eat that carrot after she did *that* with it?!"

A dirty mind is a joy forever. :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 05:25:46 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Active sensors

In mail you write:

>>Why doesn't the Imperium insist that all commercial (ie non-military)
>>vessels operate with Active Sensors lit up all the time. Anything that
>>doesn't could then be assumed to be potentially hostile and intercepted or
>>avoided..

There's a major problem with this. There are a limited number of
frequencies to operate the radars/lidars on. And if you are using the
same frequency as another ship, or even one that is "close enough",
*neither* of you will get anything but hash. 

It's sort of like going around at night with *powerful* flashlights.
You can see ok using one. But if there's a bunch of folks using them,
you'll spend a lot of time being blinded by someone else's flashlight.

With *ranging* systems it gets worse. You can't tell if an echo is a
return from a pulse sent out by *your* radar, or one sent out by
someone else's[1]. Which means you don't know how long it's been
travelling, and thus don't know the range. 

This will give you a lot of false targets on the screen.

This sort of thing is why commercial aircraft use transponders rather
than active radar. 

[1] well, actually, you *can* if you embed pulse codes in the pulse.
But this *greatly* increases the cost of the gear. And even if civilian
ships used such gear, they'd likely have limited numbers of pulse codes.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2191
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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Thursday, January 1 1998     Volume 1997 : Number 2192



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Question for Trav Group
Re: >*field mice*.
Re: Sayat Seasonal Beverages
Re: >*field mice*.
Re: Import it into Traveller
Traveller PBM / PBEM
Re: GURPS Traveller
LAUNCH: Arbellatra - the T4 CCG
LAUNCH: On-line Astrogator
Re: GURPS Traveller
Re: GURPS Traveller
Re: Traveller Anime
Re: Cylons in TNE
Re: Import it into Traveller
Re: Layout of charts and tables
Re: Question
Re: Freelance Traveller redesign assistance; FAQ update; Traveller promotion ideas?; Team Traveller?
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2189
Re: >*field mice*.
Re: >*field mice*.
Snow sled
Re: >*field mice*.
Re: >*field mice*.
Re: Cylons in TNE
Where the hell did they come from?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 07:14:12 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Question for Trav Group

Derek wrote:

>Here is a question recently brought up in an adventure. I thought it
>interesting enough to attempt to get feedback from everyone of you...
>
>If you (your character) had the opertunity to journey through a portal
>(wormhole) and you only knew that you would land on a planet somewhere that
>could support your life.
>1) Would you go not knowing if you could ever get home, or how hostile or
>harsh of an enviroment it would be.

As they say in _Buckaroo Banzai_, "Home is where you wear your hat!"  Sure.

>2) If you only had a few minutes to prepair and could ONLY TAKE 3 (THREE)
>things, what would they be.

Toothbrush; coupla changes of clothes (including hat); wallet.

>3) If you had 24 hours to prepair how would your answer change?

Pack the clothes and stuff properly in a suitcase or something.  Add a camera.

>3) If you were told that the portal would re-open in 1 year for a 'return
>trip' what THREE items would you take (if you chose to go).

From there?  Cheesy folk art.  Tourist ashtrays/mugs/shirts.  Alien
bestseller novel off the rack in the departure lounge.

My attitude is: better off dead than being stuck in the wilderness.  So
assume you're going to come out in a civilized area.  You'll be prepared
and ready to have a good time; and if you find yourself in some exotic
jungle/desert/steppe, you'll die and get it all over with pretty quickly,
without suffering through all that outdoor survival crap.


Kenji Schwarz              kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 04:56:58 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: >*field mice*.

In mail you write:

> Leonard Erickson wrote:
>
>>To bring this *somewhat* back on topic, travellers are going to
>>encounter some *strange* foods out there, even with pure human
>>cultures.
>>
>>The above brought to mind the Roman delicacy of dormice in honey. Other
>>"nummies" are things like fresh blood and milk mixed (An african tribe
>>whose name I forget use this as a staple). Various insects (but *not*
>
> The Maasai are the most popularly known for this, but IIRC it's fairly
> widespread among East African and Nilotic pastoral peoples.  ObTrav:
> Shamelessly ripped off for the Sayat.
>
>>cockroaches, they have something that people are pretty much
>>universally allergic to).
>
> Birds' nest soup is essentially hardened swallows' drool, I guess.  The
> contents of grazing animals' stomachs and colons is a basic foodstuff in
> some places, and a delicacy in others.  Rotting walrus blubber was a staple
> in coastal NE Siberia.  Raw wheat flour mixed with (stale, reheated) fish
> oil and served in vats was festival food along the American NW coast in
> early colonial times.  (Again, shamelessly ripped off for the Sayat.
> Proudly doing _my_ part to counter the notion that women belong in the
> kitchen.)

Check out the old Roman sauce called "garum". It's fish based, and the
"standard" method involved letting the fish *ferment*. The "quick"
method is more acceptable to moderns.

And for that matter, check out the old "traditional" method of making
soy sauce.

> Of course, closer to home:  Haggis.  Tripe.  Spam.  "Olive loaf".  Kidneys.
> Cheese.

Beer, wine. A culture could consider these to be "rotten" grain/fruit
just as the Chinese consider cheese to be "rotten milk". 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 05:15:17 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Sayat Seasonal Beverages

In mail you write:

> I actually have a couple of Lovecraftian drink recipes, including the
> seasonally-appropriate "Nog-Sothoth", if anyone's interested...  Not for
> the faint of heart or tasteful of palate.

If nobody else is interested, mail them to me.

>>ps. Have the Sayat tried offering that drink to any K'kree? If so, is
>>there film? :-)
>
> Sayat don't invite livestock to diplomatic functions -- much less party
> with them.  That's UNNATURAL!!!

I keep thinking that we need to put a civilization dominated by
intelligent *plants* on the far side of the K'kree. Preferrably one
that's several tech levels higher. Though the same tech level will do.
:-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 05:07:30 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: >*field mice*.

In mail you write:

>> >cockroaches, they have something that people are pretty much
>> >universally allergic to).
>
> and, of course, the fact that they are the second grossest critters on 
> the planet (after spiders) has nothing to do with it...

People eat raw oysters, and eat grubs and mealworms. Compared with
*those* roaches aren't all that gross.

> All going to prove that Mssr. Long's maxim about blue mud isn't always as 
> easy to follow as it would at first seem... in fact, cultural mores about 
> food may be harder to suss out and deal with than almost any others 
> (except sexual interactions).
>
> Throwing a party in a new society, and having the natives eat something 
> that the party finds utterly revolting (without going so far as, say, 
> dead baby eyes) is a good way to see just how diplomatic they can be as 
> they try to say "thanks, no" without either trapping themselves in some 
> intolerable lie, or some intolerable faux pas.

It helps to re-read some parts of "Glory Road". The "frogs" at the
banquet at Squire whatisname's on Nevia. And for that matter, the
consequences of not "getting" the idiom about "bed". :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 02:25:14 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Import it into Traveller

VargrA8C7A wrote:

> About using other games' adventures in Traveller.
>
> I have used stuff from GDW's 2300 AD game.  Their modules are
> very compatible with Traveller.  I also liked the Kafers (spider-like
> humanoid race) and am using them in my campaign.

While watching Little Shop Of Horror, I decided to create a new alien race
(based on Audrie 2, the plant) in my own campaign.  Has anybody out there
done it before?  Any suggestions?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 10:14:05 +0000 ()
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Traveller PBM / PBEM

Moin Marc,

> Juggernaut Press and SweetPea Entertainment have concluded a letter of intent
> regarding the exclusive play-by-mail license for Traveller, Marc Millers
> classic science-fiction role-playing game.

	Does "exclusive" mean an out for free development of PBM games ?

	I mean, what would happen when I add trade to my sector viewer,
	or space combat, or a pocket empire module ? 

- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 09:46:22 +0000 ()
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller

Moin Zane H. Healy,

> Eris, don't mind me.  I think I got a little out of hand when I answered
> that one last night, and owe you an apology.  I've just seen a few to many
> people saying how terrible of a thing GURPS Traveller is.

	I think I'm on of them, but for a reason not yet mentioned here.

	Well I've once played a Traveller setting over GURPS rules mix,
	refereed by a friend who know GURPS. It was in Diaspora in the
	Antebellum (to be precise 280-3I) and had a lot of political
	and counter intelligence enigmas. I've enjoyed it.

	As Traveller had 4 distinct 'incompatible' rulesets, a 5th is
	no problem as long as the setting is Traveller. But what's
	probately come in print next year is imho not Traveller, because
	its invalidating half of the Traveller canon. Its invalidating
	both MT and TNE history, just because "they had a dream".

By Michael
- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 14:09:11 +0000
From: Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com
Subject: LAUNCH: Arbellatra - the T4 CCG

Greetings!
     CORE is proud to announce the unveiling of their T4 CCG proposal. This
was first proposed to SweetPea and Imperium Games a year ago. Since they
have failed to pick it up I'm making it public on the CORE web site. For
details, see
     http://members.nova.org/~sol/core

     Jo Grant
     jo_grant@lotus.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 14:09:07 +0000
From: Jo_Grant/DUB/Lotus@lotus.com
Subject: LAUNCH: On-line Astrogator

Greetings!
     CORE is proud to host an on-line storehouse of the 20 sectors of the
basic Traveller Astrographic data. This currently includes sector maps,
subsector maps, rendered with Jim's Galactic program. It is hoped this can
be extended to include extened system and world information once Web space
is found. For details, see
     http://members.nova.org/~sol/core

     Jo Grant
     jo_grant@lotus.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Jan 98 00:59:13 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller

On 12/30/97 at 11:50 PM,  Sam Thomas <sinbad@dfw.net> said:

>>Inquiring minds want to know!

>Ahh the Heretic seeks knowledge but is *clueless* where to begin.<G>

Ah, Samhopper the wise man always seeks knowledge, knowing true
enlightenment comes only from within.

Set yourself not on a single path to enlightenment, but open your mind to
the multitude of paths that lead to Traveller.


Eris,
    < ;-p >
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Jan 98 01:31:11 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller

On 12/30/97 at 11:55 PM,  Joseph "Chepe" Lockett <jlockett@io.com> said:

>> Can we figure out how to tack an "honest to god" Task System onto GURPS
>> old-fashion Success System?

>To vary difficulty, I usually just assess an on-the-fly skill penalty --
>"There's not a lot left of the carvings.  Roll Archaeology minus 6 to
>interpret them."  (I'm fairly sure the Basic Set specifically suggests
>this.)  

Sure, this is just the GURPS Success System from B86.  What I'm talking
about are *tasks* describable as Routine, Formidable, etc where the DM's
have standard meanings. Something like:

  Easy        +3
  Routine      0
  Hard        -3        [For instance]
  Formidable  -6        
  Staggering  -9
  Hopeless   -12

The GM is, of course, the final arbiter, but having difficulty descriptions
like this make defining tasks much easier.  These descriptors would be
cumulative, so performing a Hard Task (-3) in the dark (-5) would be of
almost Staggering difficulty (-8).

Now your example would go like this, "There's not a lot left of the
carvings.  This is a Formidable challenge to your Archaeology skill, roll
Archaeology-6 to interpret them."


Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 05:55:13 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller Anime

In mail you write:

>> Besides the building-sized handguns(!) etc, I'm fairly sure that the
>> costumes depicted breach at least one of the Traveller 4 Prime Directives.
>
> You're players are into Dirty Pair and the other 'battle bikini babes with
> bug guns' stuff, aren't they?

Hey! I think Kei & Yuiri would be *great* in Traveller. As a threat to
the players if nothing else. :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 05:44:28 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Cylons in TNE

In mail you write:

> In-Reply-To: <v03110703b0cf705b166b@[207.220.32.141]>
>
>> The ship's though are rougher, they're non-jump capable I'd say, but
>> Battlestar Galactica was always pretty vague about the ship specs, and
>> distances traveled.
>
> Everything was very small (the standard unit of distance was the 
> micron...)

No, that was a unit of *time* (as in "Wait a micron..."). 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 07:00:35 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Import it into Traveller

> I use modules from other games as well--Space Opera, Gamma World, T2300.


I do this too.  Space Opera has the most interesting system generation
I've seen, but it took me a few years to figure out how to make it a
computer program.  Took some really creative coding.  :)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 06:57:19 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Layout of charts and tables

> The ideal format is a set of charts that walks the player through the process,
> defining or explaining any items that need explaining. If combat ranges are
> involved, the chart should be included, even if the data is already provided
> elsewhere.


Here here!  I strongly agree!

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 22:05:56 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: Re: Question

SW Mego <SWMego@aol.com> asked:
>If you (your character) had the opertunity to journey through a portal
>1) Would you go not knowing if you could ever get home, or how hostile or
>harsh of an enviroment it would be.

Personally?  No.  Characters I've played?  Some yes (B.J.Wheeler, IISS Master
Scout, would probably consider it 'fun') and some no (Dr. Gzoe Zanore likes
his creature comforts).

>2) If you only had a few minutes to prepair and could ONLY TAKE 3 (THREE)
>things, what would they be.

From what's in my apartment?  I'd grab my machete, bowie knife, and canteen.

>3) If you had 24 hours to prepair how would your answer change?

Go to an outdoor-store, and get a multipurpose axe/shovel type tool, a
survival
knife, and a solar still.

>3) If you were told that the portal would re-open in 1 year for a 'return
>trip' what THREE items would you take (if you chose to go).

Same as above; survival for a year is about the same as survival for an
indefinite period of time.


                                        --- Derek Wildstar

wildstar@qrc.com -------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 07:18:47 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Freelance Traveller redesign assistance; FAQ update; Traveller promotion ideas?; Team Traveller?

> entium II with ungodly amounts of RAM, etc.  Some people either due to
> preferance or not being able to afford anything else are running systems
> that don't support Jave, or animated GIF's, or Frames, etc.  Keep it simple
> and it will load fast, and everyone can enjoy it.  I'm not saying skip
> graphics though, sorry those people browsing the Web on their Commodore
> 64's using Lynx (I'm not joking), or something simular, will have to suffer
> wondering what thier missing.  Animated GIF's really aren't a problem, but
> Frames and Java can be.

Well Zane, I don't use frames on my site, although Geocities has pasted
a bit of Java on the front of my main page.  (Wish I could get rid of
it).

I do used animated GIFs, but everything has an ALT description so you
really don't even need to view GIFs.
In the future I'm going to have to make ONE page have frames, as it will
be an ungodly lengthy list of weapons
and their stats, with the header 'froze' so one can scrollbar thru the
entire list and not have to scroll
all the way back up to remember a heading.

In case you're wondering, it's a list of almost 1,000 different types of
weapons, from small handheld units to the General Motors Mark 31 Bolo
unit.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 11:17:50 -0500
From: "Chris Cox" <chriscox@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2189

Chris Griffen Wrote:
>I've submitted my page to Yahoo *at least* two dozen times, but I never get
>a response. It appears that they just ignore submissions unless they are
>for the higher traffic areas.


Despite never submitting my page to Yahoo is was listed.

Chris Cox
(chriscox@ix.netcom.com)
The Draconis Cluster Traveller pages
(http://users.aol.com/yanbeck/trav.htm)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 09:17:24 -0700 (MST)
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Re: >*field mice*.

On Sat, 20 Dec 1997, Leonard Erickson wrote:

> In mail you write:
> 
> > "People on this planet put chocolate in their mouth?  And _eat_ it?"
> > (blushing furiously, edging away in horrified fascination).
> 
> Right after posting my last message, I remembered something. Chocolate
> is *toxic* to canines, and hence, probably to Vargr as well. 

Only because it's relatively easy for dogs to get an overdose by eating
it. The toxic component is Theophylline, which, in large doses, gives you
irregular heart rhythms. Humans can easily overdose on this stuff, too,
it's just a lot harder for a human to eat enough chocolate to get that
much. It _is_ a problem with things like asthma inhalers containing
thophylline, and there has been consideration of banning thophylline
containing inhalers for children for exactly this reason.

Typically, when you hear of a dog getting poisoned by chocolate, it's
someones little terrier or something that ate the pound of chocolates on
the coffee table. Also dogs metabolize theophylline more slowly, and the
average, than humans do, making the problem worse.

My dogs (65 and 70 lbs each) would probably have no problem handling a
pound of chocolate. Vargr, at what, an average of 60 kg, would have even
less.

All by way of a long-winded explanation to the effect that a Vargr would
probably have no problems with, or aversions to chocolate.

Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


> 
> -- 
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort
> 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 10:57:25 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: >*field mice*.

> From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> 
> Date: Saturday, December 20, 1997 7:04 AM
> 
> In mail you write:
> 
> > "People on this planet put chocolate in their mouth?  And _eat_ it?"
> > (blushing furiously, edging away in horrified fascination).
> 
> Right after posting my last message, I remembered something. Chocolate
> is *toxic* to canines, and hence, probably to Vargr as well. 

Does this mean that rather than alcohol, perhaps the adult beverage of
choice among the Vargr would be cocoa, or even better, chocolate milk?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 12:04:14 -0500 (EST)
From: pierre-louis constantin <Pierre-Louis.Constantin@DMI.USherb.CA>
Subject: Snow sled

Hey all!
 
	Long time no post. :)  Having a job will do that to ya.  
 
	I was going through Valcourt the other day (birthplace of the
snowmobile) and was pondering what the future of those devices would
be.  Here's what I came up with,  hope you find it useful. :)
 
In an unrelated note, I know my web page has most of the vices
possible (black background, and very little actual content :) but it
will have to be moved soon, and I will improve it then.  Be patient
please. :)  Oh and what should I tell all those AOL users that think
my link on Traveller grenades means I have real grenades to sell
them!?!
Anyways.  Happy New Year. :)
 

Sigfuy Snow Effect Board
Craft Id: WIG platform, TL 7, 8.94 KCr
    Hull: 1/1, Disp=0.19, Config=4AF, Armor=1
          Unloaded=0.32, Loaded=0.33
   Power: 1/1, Turbofan generator=0.0007, Duration=24 h (1 Cr/day of 
                hydrocarbon fuel)
    Loco: 1/1, NOE=100, Cruise=300, Top=400, G rating=0.6
   Commo: -
 Sensors: -
 Control: Electronic (manual control possible)
   Accom: 1 cramped seat
   Other: VTOL.  Glide 7, Combat Move=14, Travel 1200, Agility 15,
          Maintenance=0.11

The Snow effect board is a very efficient device used to skim over
desert
glaciers on icy planets.  The board is a simple hexagon-shaped
carbon-fiber
'wing' with skids on the wingtips and a skid/rudder aft.  A very
small
turbofan jet engine at the 'nose' pumps high-pressure air under the
wing
to keep it flying on its air cushion.  The pilot lays on his stomach 
and keep his eyes open, because that engine gives quite a kick.
Skilled
pilots don't need to use the electronic controls, instead balancing
their
weight on the board to control it.  To reduce the problem of take
off and landing roll, the board is capable of vertical take off and 
landing, at the cost of 25 times its normal fuel consumption, up to
its cruising height (about 1 meter off the ground).

Ideal for sports fans, deadly snow assasins and jolly red
philanthropists
on a budget.  However the board has no room for cargo but can
possibly
carry a surprising amount of extra weight at the loss of VTOL
capability
and increased risk of a crash.


- -- 
Pierre-Louis Constantin, ift. a. 	"He whose name was writ in E-mail."
(: "I hate fanatics with a passion; all extremists should be shot." :)
	    How's my surfing? http://www.dmi.usherb.ca/~constanp/

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 11:52:29 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: >*field mice*.

> Check out the old Roman sauce called "garum". It's fish based, and the
> "standard" method involved letting the fish *ferment*. The "quick"
> method is more acceptable to moderns.
> 
> And for that matter, check out the old "traditional" method of making
> soy sauce.
> 
> > Of course, closer to home:  Haggis.  Tripe.  Spam.  "Olive loaf". 
Kidneys.
> > Cheese.
> 
> Beer, wine. A culture could consider these to be "rotten" grain/fruit
> just as the Chinese consider cheese to be "rotten milk". 

Do you know how to make "fish sauce" an common ingredient/topping in may
oriental dishes?
You need a board, a bowl, a nail and a fish.  Place the bowl in a corner
where it will not be disturbed.  Place the fish on the board then nail it's
tail down.  Place the board in the bowl with the mouth of the fish pointing
down and lean the board up against the wall.  Come back when the fish is
just skin and bones and bottle the fish sauce.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 11:21:09 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: >*field mice*.

> From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com>
> 
> In mail you write:
> 
> > Ever serve a Japanese person a cheeseburger?  I can't figure out how a
> > culture that considers raw fish a delicacy can turn down a nicelt aged
> > cheddar.
> 
> [re:  German owned, US based company party (picnic/bar BQ)]
> 
> Everything went fine until the hostess brought out the corn on the
> cob... 
> 
> Seems that in Germany corn is only fed to pigs...

Different strokes for different folks I always say.  Did you ever try to
find the food taboos of another culture?  For the most part, it's
impossible.  If you ask a typical member of any culture what their food
taboos are, they will assure you that they don't have any.

Ever eat pumpernickel bread?  It's German in origin, but according to one
tail the name is from the French.  It seems that one of Napoleon's generals
had this war-horse named Nicholas who loved the course brown bread, so in
order to ingratiate themselves with both the horse and the general, the
soldiers under his command would often bring him a slice of it.  They
referred to it among them selves as pum por Nicole (bread for Nicole (the
general's nickname for the horse)).

The German people hearing it called this thought it was an honorific
bestowed by the French troops.  In fact, the French hated the bread, it was
too coarse for their "refined" palettes.  Come to think of it I don't care
much for it either, not because it is coarse, but because I don't care for
rye.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 12:11:31 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Cylons in TNE

> >> The ship's though are rougher, they're non-jump capable I'd say, but
> >> Battlestar Galactica was always pretty vague about the ship specs, and
> >> distances traveled.
> >
> > Everything was very small (the standard unit of distance was the 
> > micron...)
> 
> No, that was a unit of *time* (as in "Wait a micron..."). 

You are experiencing a translation error, the correct spelling of the unit
name is michron.  I believe that the unit in question is about half a
minute.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 16:20:35 -0000
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Where the hell did they come from?

I've just found 2 posts (by me) in Digest2170 that I sent out months ago!

What's going on?

MJD.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2192
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Thursday, January 1 1998     Volume 1997 : Number 2193



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

NOT BOB!!!!!
[none]
Good God there's ANOTHER one!
Re: >*field mice*.
Re: >*field mice*.
Re: Cylons in TNE
Re: GURPS Traveller
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2190
Formulas
Re: Cylons in TNE
Re: Cylons in TNE
Re: GURPS Traveller
Re: Flame wars & other disagreements
Re: Cylons in TNE
Re: Layout of charts and tables
Chocoholics
Re: GURPS Traveller -- Metrics Intuititive?!
Re: GURPS Traveller
Re: Cylons in TNE
Re: GURPS Traveller
Re: Chocoholics
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2184

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 16:18:11 -0000
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: NOT BOB!!!!!

Great!!! Traveller PBM!!! Love it!

But why oh why oh why did it have to be Bob McLain ?

The above is just a personal opinion, of course. 

You'll see.

MJD.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 16:30:22 -0000
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: [none]

Jason said:
>>(d) What other companies currently have Traveller licenses, and what have
>>they published?
>
>Don't know, and damn little!  Gold Rush Game *had* a licence and talked
>about a suppliment..did they ever publish it?

>I emailed them a few weeks ago to ask them what the status was of their
>supplements. Here's part of the response I got:

I got a similar response. 

Keep on hopping Jason! (You tired out yet?)

MJD.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 16:33:08 -0000
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Good God there's ANOTHER one!

There seem to be old Emails popping up on the list. I didn't re-send them. 

Could it be Virus?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 11:07:25 +0000
From: "Tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: >*field mice*.

Probally not.. If I remeber right it puts them into anaphlipiic 
(spelling?) shock, and can kill them.

My wife has the same reaction.. When she smells choclate, she gets 
queasy. If she eats to much, she cannot breath correctly. If she OD's 
she will stop breathing and die.

Hmmm... Honey.. got that life insurance payed up?

(j/k)

Cya L8tr

> > Right after posting my last message, I remembered something. Chocolate
> > is *toxic* to canines, and hence, probably to Vargr as well. 
> 
> Does this mean that rather than alcohol, perhaps the adult beverage of
> choice among the Vargr would be cocoa, or even better, chocolate milk?
> 
************************************************************************
tykoduk@sprynet.com       http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/tsykoduk/

Thought for the day:
    Book (n): a utensil used to pass time while waiting
    for the TV repairman.

************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 10:59:52 +0000
From: "Tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: >*field mice*.

Heck.. In the middle ages, it was consitered normal to let fowl hang 
by the head until it fell to the ground to 'ripen' it before it was 
cooked.

Good food is in the eye of the beholder.. (stomach of the eater?)

> In mail you write:
> > Of course, closer to home:  Haggis.  Tripe.  Spam.  "Olive loaf".  Kidneys.
> > Cheese.
> 
> Beer, wine. A culture could consider these to be "rotten" grain/fruit
> just as the Chinese consider cheese to be "rotten milk". 
 
************************************************************************
tykoduk@sprynet.com       http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/tsykoduk/

Thought for the day:
    Dictatorship (n): a form of government under which everything 
    which is not prohibited is compulsory.

************************************************************************

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 12:00:18 -0800
From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Cylons in TNE

>>> The ship's though are rougher, they're non-jump capable I'd say, but
>>> Battlestar Galactica was always pretty vague about the ship specs, and
>>> distances traveled.
>>
>> Everything was very small (the standard unit of distance was the
>> micron...)
>
>No, that was a unit of *time* (as in "Wait a micron...").

I've got one further thing to add to this portion, there is a new Hard Back
novel called "Battlestar Galactica: Armageddon", by Richard Hatch and
Christopher Golden, and published by Pocket Books.  It was published around
last June, but I only found out about it last month.  I just finished it
yesterday, and unfortunatly didn't think about it earlier.

It's a pretty good book, although it goes into a lot of stuff that I feel
should be left unsaid (read it to find out what).  It's definitly better
than the Comic book series that came out a year or so ago.  There is
supposed to be another novel sometime in '98.

What this book really has to do with this discussion is that it's got a few
pages of glossary in the back of the book to help make sense of the units
of measurement, etc.  Also according to the book, the ships do have some
sort of hyperdrive, and this includes the Vipers (In all honesty this makes
sense, but as I said earlier in this thread, the show was never clear on
it).

			Zane


| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/                       |
| For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them.    |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html            |

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 11:50:32 -0800
From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller

Michael Koehne Wrote:
>	As Traveller had 4 distinct 'incompatible' rulesets, a 5th is
>	no problem as long as the setting is Traveller. But what's
>	probately come in print next year is imho not Traveller, because
>	its invalidating half of the Traveller canon. Its invalidating
>	both MT and TNE history, just because "they had a dream".

Ah, this is actually the one argument against GURPS Traveller I've no
objection to.  I understand your point, and I both agree and disagree with
it.

My way of looking at this is that you will be able to play the MT setting
with GURPS Traveller with no problem whatsoever.  TNE will require a little
work, but not much.  This is my argument for this argument.


Personally I got into Traveller when TNE came out.  The TNE rulebook was my
first Traveller book.  I now own a majority of all Traveller material, all
IG material, all GDW material except a couple Classic items, plus a good
percentage of the third party stuff.  I think Traveller is one of the best
two RPG settings, period.

Despite the fact that TNE was the first thing I got, and some of the MT
stuff was second, it's the Classic setting I love.  Quite honestly I've
never been able to get into the TNE setting, except the Domain of Deneb
portian, this is because I really hate the concept of the Virus.  I like
the MT setting, but think they went to far.

Based on this, I personally love the concept of an alternate timeline.
Maybe this is because I've always enjoyed the concept of alternate
timelines, the point is, it is an alternate timeline and it doesn't
invalidate MT or TNE.  Also remember one of the core concepts of RPG's is
that as the GM you can throw out whatever you want, be it rules or some
aspect of the "Holy Traveller Canon".

				Zane


| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/                       |
| For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them.    |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html            |

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 14:59:12 -0500
From: "Allen Shock" <ashock@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2190

 
> Not that they might not have "loved their characters and had a great
time"
> if their characters had been generated right out of CT, right? ;->  

Well actually, in the  case of my players (and this is just my group, I
might add), they don't like CT, partially because of the character creation
system. They like T4, because I let them CHOOSE things even more than the
rules allow for. I realize that you can do this with CT too (a GM decides
how his game works), but a lot of people are passice when it comes  to that
sort of thing; they won't go against the rules even when they SHOULD. You,
of course, are a heretic, and therefore  not subject to this limitation :)
 
> I never said point-based design, the GURPS way, was wrong, bad, or evil.
I
> just said I would prefer there to be more than *one* way to generate the
> characters, and that one of those ways was more similar to the Advanced
CT
> method.

There is a random character creation method given in the GURPS Basic set
which would provide a system example for something like that. I don't think
there will be any "official" system like that. I really think that in the
case of the GURPS system, random character creation is a bad idea. It could
produce some very unbalancedc characters. But, it's your game :) 

Allen

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 15:37:41 -0500
From: hal@buffnet.net
Subject: Formulas

Hello Folks,
  A few people have emailed me privately about the formulas that I have run
across with respect to a program that I wish to write, as apparently, do
they.  Enclosed are two webpage sites that were VERY educating with respect
to stars.

http://instruct1.cit.cornell.edu/~tlh10/lec15.htm

http://www.physics.gmu.edu/classinfo/astr103/CourseNotes/str_radt.htm


  If I might suggest, the first one has a very in depth set of notes well
worth reading.  In it, it even has information about the maximum population
that earth can be expected to hold (some 180 x 10^9 IIRC) based upon
caloric needs of people plus maximum available land use.  The notes also
reference the fact that today, there are something on the order of a 93
million population gained per year based on birth/death statistics.

  In any event, those who requested the formulas, please be patient while I
gather all of the formulas into one spot, and then email it directly to the
list... I am not exactly the most organized person in the world <grin>...

      Hal

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 13:12:29 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Cylons in TNE

At 07:22 PM 12/31/97 -0800, you wrote:

>Am I correct in guessing you don't like "Blakes 7", or "Doctor Who" either?
>Personally I think they're some of the greatest Sci-Fi shows ever, they're
>all plagued with serious inconsistences though.  But then I like "Lost in
>Space" (at least the first 6 episodes), so my taste in Sci-Fi might be
>suspect :^)

Blake's 7:  Coherent story arc, well defined characters, minimal
techno-babble, well done on a very low budget.

Dr. Who:  Great concept, wonderful actors, stories covering everything from
light comedy to the deaths of major characters (who didn't cry at the end
credits of the final episode of Earthshock, with Adric's broken pin..) Well
done on a miniscule budget.

Battlestar Galactica:  One dimensional characters, poor acting,
techno-babble through the roof (microns???) heavy reliance on stock footage
(we used to joke that the Cylons were experts at just grazing the top fin
of Vipers, since they made that shot at least three times an episode.),
disconnected stories that did very little to advance the "search for Earth"
storyline..

Very little comparison IMHO.

The only good to come out of BG in my opinion was the shoot of Dirk
Benedict reacting to a Cylon Warrior in the opening credits of "The A-Team."

- --
+--------------------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry               dberry@hooked.net |
|          http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/          |
+--------------------------------------------------+
| "Battles are won by slaughter and maneuver.  The |
|  greater the general, the more he contributes in |
|  maneuver, the less he demands in slaughter."    |
|                     -Sir Winston L. S. Churchill |
+--------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 13:14:36 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Cylons in TNE

At 05:44 AM 1/1/98 PST, you wrote:

>No, that was a unit of *time* (as in "Wait a micron..."). 

According to my wife (who is a BG fan) the unit of time was a "centon."  As
in "the Cylon strike force went crazy 30 centons ago, something about a
Virus..."
- --
+--------------------------------------------------------+
|   Douglas E. Berry                 dberry@hooked.net   |
|             http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/             |
+--------------------------------------------------------+
| "In the long run luck is given only to the efficient." |
|     -Helmuth von Moltke, founder, German Imperial Army |
+--------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 13:22:07 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller

At 09:46 AM 1/1/98 +0000, you wrote:
>
>	As Traveller had 4 distinct 'incompatible' rulesets, a 5th is
>	no problem as long as the setting is Traveller. But what's
>	probately come in print next year is imho not Traveller, because
>	its invalidating half of the Traveller canon. Its invalidating
>	both MT and TNE history, just because "they had a dream".

It's an alternate setting.  I don't think the Game Police will kick down
your door if you use GURPS Traveller to run a Rebellion era game, nor will
they drag you away for using T4.1 in the alternate setting.

In the campaign I'm writing up, the Fifth Frontier War is going to have a
very different ending.. Am I still playing Traveller?

- --
+---------------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net |
|        http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/       |
+---------------------------------------------+
| "Strategy is the art of making use of time  |
|  and space.  I am less concerned about the  |
|  latter than the former.  Space we can      |
|  recover, lost time never."                 |
|         -Napoleon Bonaparte, French soldier |
+---------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Jan 98 15:26:55 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Flame wars & other disagreements

On 12/19/97 at 06:42 PM,  "Suzette C. Dollar" <suzd@pop.goodnet.com> said:

>> Hmmm. Right. Is it me or is the list getting a bit hysterical?

>In repetitive cycles, I'm afraid. I nearly left the list the last  time
>around. 

Are we enduring another flamewar?  I haven't noticed one around here, but
then I'm still in holiday-with-the-relatives mode where I don't recognized
*any* sort insult no matter what. ;->

Happy Traveller new year, everybody!

Eris,
    or is that happy new Traveller year? ;->
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 17:10:55 -0500
From: "Daniel Poulin" <pould@netcom.ca>
Subject: Re: Cylons in TNE

Daniel Poulin
pould@netcom.ca

> >> Everything was very small (the standard unit of distance was the
> >> micron...)
> >
> >No, that was a unit of *time* (as in "Wait a micron...").

Nope, a micron was a measure of distance. A centon (sp?) was the measure of
time. I can remember thinking that the Galactica needed longer range radar
(or whatever they used) because in one episode they did not notice a Cylon
attack force until it was only 50 microns away. 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Jan 98 15:35:29 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: Layout of charts and tables

On 01/01/98 at 02:04 AM,  "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net> said:

>The plan outlined below sounds good to me; 

My draft of Marc's chargen for 4.1 is probably outdated it's so old, but it
was pretty easy to follow.  The problem with translating that to
equipment/vehicle design is length.  I'm afraid the checklist might be so
long, several pages, as to seperate it from charts/tables/formulas too
much.  It's probably just a difference in people, but I'd prefer to keep
the *bare* instructions in sight of the tables/etc they refer to at all
times.  Facing pages or a two column approach might be a good compromise.

>I'm a gearhead.  On behalf of the gearheads, I would recommend that you
>include the formula used to derive the tabular data where possible,
>putting it/them in the text and at the bottom of the table or chart.

Well, I *hate* formulas buried in the middle of text. ;->  It's the buried,
I hate, so if you put them in there how about italizing them, bolding them,
making them a large font size so they *really* stand out?

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Jan 98 16:05:00 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Chocoholics

On 01/01/98 at 09:17 AM,  Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
said:

>> Right after posting my last message, I remembered something. Chocolate
>> is *toxic* to canines, and hence, probably to Vargr as well. 

>Only because it's relatively easy for dogs to get an overdose by eating
>it. The toxic component is Theophylline, which, in large doses, gives you
>irregular heart rhythms. Humans can easily overdose on this stuff, too,
>it's just a lot harder for a human to eat enough chocolate to get that
>much. It _is_ a problem with things like asthma inhalers containing
>thophylline, and there has been consideration of banning thophylline
>containing inhalers for children for exactly this reason.

I'd just like to mention that you should strictly limit the amount of
chocolate given to very small children as well.

>All by way of a long-winded explanation to the effect that a Vargr would
>probably have no problems with, or aversions to chocolate.

Hum, well I disagree a little with Bruce here.  I think Vargr would have
the same sorts of problems with chocolate that humans have with alcohol.
They are a *little* less massive than your average human and thophylline
should have a slightly stronger and longer lasting effect on them than
humans.  Even if it doesn't, that's the way I'd run things in a game. BTW,
Vargr would also get drunk on alcohol just as easily as humans too. I'd
guess chocolate liqueurs would be *big* sellers among Vargr.  ;->

Now, what about Aslan, K'kree, and <snicker> Hivers?  What recreational
stimulants/depressants will they use?

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 23:36:58 GMT
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller -- Metrics Intuititive?!

On Thu, 1 Jan 1998 04:04:12 -0500, you wrote:

>Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller

>>From someone involved in the GURPS conversions, I learned that they will go
>>with the English system.  They think that it is very Travelleresque
>>(although how they came to this conclusion I'll never know).  The metric
>>system is much more intuitive, but I guess they feel that consistency with
>>other GURPS material is more important.  Maybe they are right!
>>Inconsistency is the hobgoblin that has ruined more good RPG's than
>>anything else.

As someone old enough to have gone through school at the time Australia was
converting from Lsd to Decimal currency and from Imperial Weights and Measures
to Metrics I can assure you that metrics are *not* any more "intuitive" than
Imperial measures. I think we could say that any system one is brought up with
is *intuitive*, but I still find it easier and more meaningful to convert to
Imperial measures when I need to know the magnitude of something.

And, as an interesting case in point, as a High School teacher I have noted that
my students rarely (in fact, I'd be more daring, and say *never*) know their
height in Meters, but *always* refer to it in Feet and Inches. They tend to
refer to their weight in Stones and Pounds more than they do in Kilos, though
less decisively (around 80% rather than 100%).

Phil
- ---------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au
Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU)
Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)
Designer, Standard Role Playing (PGD)

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Jan 98 18:11:24 -0600
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller

On 12/31/97 at 08:34 PM,  "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@ix.netcom.com> said:

>>Sheeze, Zane!  Don't get your trousers in a twist, I was only half
>>serious..if that.

>Eris, don't mind me.  I think I got a little out of hand when I answered
>that one last night, and owe you an apology.  I've just seen a few to many
>people saying how terrible of a thing GURPS Traveller is.

No apology needed, Zane, but I do appreciate you're offering it.  I'm not
one the folks that are going to jump all over GURPS Traveller.  It won't be
bad, but even if it was, I wouldn't jump all over it..not my style.

>>I've always been of the opinion that you don't need *any* books to run a
>>rpg, but they can sure be useful.  Ok, I'll answer your objections as
>>seriously as I can on New Year's Eve. ;->

>Sounds like my style of running Traveller, no rules, just the setting and
>character generation.  

Pretty much.  I have rules, although they are usually my own, and the first
is to try to make sure everybody playing has a good time.

>Because of this style I like in depth character generation, and I think
>GURPS is pretty decent for this.

Sure is, but building a character up during his career (ie Traveller) is
pertty decent for this too, especially if the players are using the process
to develop a backstory for their character as they go.

>>>Take a look at GURPS Lensman for example, it's a Space setting, but it
>>>doen't need or even want GURPS Space.
>>
>>Can't, it's out of print.  [Sorry, couldn't help myself] ;->

>Good point, I was doing good to get my copy used.

That's a suppliment I don't have.  I saw it in a store a couple of years
ago, didn't buy it then, was going to come back after payday and...you
guessed it.  I haven't seen a copy since.

>>You, of course, don't *have* to buy them, but I think SJG really wants you
>>to desire them.  Not, that there's anything wrong with that!

>Another good point, but then of the books you mentioned I've already got
>them with the exception of Martial Arts and Vehicles.  I don't care about
>Martial Arts, and I _WANT_ Vehicles 2nd Ed., but can't find it.

I don't have Martial Arts either, but I've always thought it would be a
good suppliment to have.  Vehicles 2nd, I special ordered directly from
SJG, and I'm glad I did because they sold out a few weeks later.  I saw
where they will do a reprint in a couple of months.

>Besides you failed two mention the Space Atlases.  Those are HARD to find
>(I'm still hunting for #4) but I bought them originally to use with
>Traveller.  Also there is GURPS Aliens, and the Space Bestiary (probably
>both out of print).  

I never bought the Atlases, Bestiary, or Aliens.  I either use Trav sectors
or build my own, so the Atlases didn't appeal.  Aliens might be worth a
look though, if it has a good design system.

>The thing about GURPS that really sucks is that there are so many good
>books, and most are out of print.

Isn't that the truth!  ;-> I'm *still* looking for Swashbucklers and
Uplift.

>>Now, go out and have a happy new year,

>Now that sounds like a good idea!

Good! I'll try to take my own advice. ;->

Eris
- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 16:15:33 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Cylons in TNE

> No, that was a unit of *time* (as in "Wait a micron..."). 
> 
> According to my wife (who is a BG fan) the unit of time was a "centon."  As
> in "the Cylon strike force went crazy 30 centons ago, something about a
> Virus..."

Micron=second
Centon=minute

BOTH were used.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 17:10:36 -0800
From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller

eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch) wrote:

>On 12/30/97 at 11:55 PM,  Joseph "Chepe" Lockett <jlockett@io.com> said:
>>To vary difficulty, I usually just assess an on-the-fly skill penalty --
>>"There's not a lot left of the carvings.  Roll Archaeology minus 6 to
>>interpret them."  (I'm fairly sure the Basic Set specifically suggests
>>this.)  
>
>Sure, this is just the GURPS Success System from B86.  What I'm talking
>about are *tasks* describable as Routine, Formidable, etc where the DM's
>have standard meanings. Something like:

Bah, task systems!  Back in the days of the Little Black Books (REAL CT),
  we just had dice modifiers!  None of this sissy 'Routine' stuff!
  AND WE LIKED IT!

(just kidding, folks...)


- --------------
Kelly St.Clair
kellys@efn.org

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 12:32:24 +1100
From: Jason Anderson <midnight@kagi.com>
Subject: Re: Chocoholics

>Now, what about Aslan, K'kree, and <snicker> Hivers?  What recreational
>stimulants/depressants will they use?

Hivers are pretty easy. They just cause a rebellion in a local empire every
now and then when they feel like a buzz... =)

Cheers,
Jason

- -------
Beyond Midnight Software                               <midnight@kagi.com>
                                      <http://www.vision.net.au/~midnight>

             If it's not on fire then it's a software problem.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 22:15:12
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2184

>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
>Subject: Coronation- done right.
>
>Here is my view of the ubiquitos 90,000 tons battleship we keep seeing in
>M:0 products.  This is based on the design published in IS, but improved
>using Andy Excellent Spreadsheet (tm).
>
>
>I.N.V Coronation, Royal class Battleship (FF&S v2)
>Designed by Doug Berry, Trans-C Naval Architects
>
>Statistics
>Tons: 90,000std       Crew: 2,838             Cargo: 910std
>Volume: 1,260,000m3   Passengers H/M:10/20    Cost: 78,181.165 MCr
>Mass: 1,222,498t      Passengers Low: 0       Maint Points: 49,381
>Dimensions: 345.7m x 69.7m x 69.7m            Troops/Science: 0/0
>Tech Level: 12        Size: 10                Frozen Watch: 0
>
>Electronics
>Controls: Dynamic, Std automation. 3xFibComp (CM:0.4 CP:2.5). Bridge
>Communications: 3xRadio (50,000km, 0.02MW). 2xLaser (1,000AU, 0.0MW)
>Sensors: 2xPEMS (14 [50mkm], 0.10MW). 2xAEMS (11 [.16mkm], 0.25MW). 3xLIDAR
>(14.5 [500kkm], 0.60MW)
>Survey/Science:
>ECM: 1xRadio Jammer (500,000km, 0.33MW). 1xArea. Jammer (11)
>Signatures: Vis:-0.5, IR:0.5 (0 at 14,541MW), Act:0, Neu:1, Grav:2
>
>       Weaponry                            Performance
>1xSpinal Meson (+4) 2/14-11-9-6   3 Jump (9,000std/pc fuel)
>3xMeson Bay (+4) 2/8-5-3-2        1.0/1.1 Maneuver(Thruster:31,500MW)
>10xLaser Turret (+4) 1/10-2-0-0   Contra-grav
>10xHeavy Laser (+4) 1/12-12-12-9  1,654kph/1,734kph Atmosphere 
>30xLaser (+4) 1/7-7-4-2           Cruise:1,241kph/1,301kph)
>20xMissile Can 10/50 (Mag:50)     3 Power (/Fus:145,410MW,1.0)
>w/360 Command DetLaser1d6/2      28,558.0Fuel (/Scoop:2 /Purif:48)
>6.0G12 1000AU                     0/1,632/10/0/50 Accomodations
>                                  1 G-Comp
>                                  0 ESA
>                                 50 Sandcasters ( /AV:36 /Cans:50)
>                                  0 Damper Turrets
>                                 10 Damper Screen (0MW)
>                                 15 Meson Screen (0.36MW)
>                                  0 Force Field
>                                  0 Gravtics
>                                 50 [250] Armor
>                                 51 Structure
>
>                          Features
>700xAirlock                        10xOrdinary Galley (Cap:250)
>200xDecontamination Airlock        5xFull Galley (Cap:85)
>2xDocking Umbilical                10xCap Lnchr (45 rdy cap ea.)
>2xElectronic Shop (6std ea.)       10xGym (2.5std ea.)
> 2xMachine Shop (10std ea.)        3xArmory (5.36std ea.)
>10xSickbay (8std ea.)              1xShip's locker (45.00std ea.)
>10xPrisoner Capacity (0/5/5)
>
>            Small Craft
>10xSpacHgr (95std, 5 hatches) Shuttle Bays
>500xJetBay (3std) Lifeboats
>
>             Backups
>Drives:
>Screens: 1xMeson Screen (PV:7)
>Communications: 1xRadio (500km). 1xLaser (5,000km)
>Sensors: 1xPEMS (12.5 [1.6mkm]). 1xAEMS (8)
>Survey/Science:
>ECM:
>Power & Fuel: Purification Plant (96hr)
>
>      Crew Details
>10xMnvr. 1xElec. 1,122xEngr. 168xMain. 532xGunn. 52xScrn. 40xFlgt.
>450xTrps. 395xCmnd. 97xStew. 23xMed.
>

This is a ship I can easily imagine the Imperium building.

It has a frightenly short-ranged punch and is too big to hide, too slow to
run, and it has a glass jaw.

The combination of seventy minimum meters diameter and 1.1 gees makes it's
"hit certain" range about 1.5 light seconds. If Dave Golden's equations are
right, a Coronation class can be consistently tagged out to about a million
kilometers, under battlefield conditions.

The 12.5 cm of superdense is grossly inadequate, being penetrated by a 3600
megajoule PAW. The relative lack of nuclear dampers is, in my opinion,
criminal, and the thinness of the meson screens worse.

The main weapon barely extends to one light-second, and the secondary
weapons suite is questionable in it's ability to stop a strike of 250 or so
nuke-det missiles.

As a warship, it is built neither to run nor to fight.

In time of war, it will be a safe posting, for no sane admiral will ever
risk one in line of battle.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2193
***********************************

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Traveller-digest      Friday, January 2 1998      Volume 1997 : Number 2194



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: >*field mice*.
(no subject)
[T97#2170] Traveller Books?
re: FFS2 question (fission/isotope power plants.)
Objection to "Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2190" and like subjects.
Re: Layout of charts and tables
Re: Chocoholics
Re: Layout of charts and tables
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2187
THUDDD 8: Specifications
Wind Tunnel simulation (was: Santa's Sleigh)
Re: field mice
Re: GURPS Traveller -- Metrics Intuitive?!
Re: GURPS Traveller Power Supplies
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2190
Re: FF&S2 Questions

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 17:16:22 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: >*field mice*.

Leonard Erickson, the TravPerv Elect, wrote:

>I prefer to work it in reverse...
>
>The first item inspires me to consider a culture where the "sauce" for
>certain items is provided at the table by specially trained
>men/women... :-)
>
>"You want me to eat that carrot after she did *that* with it?!"
>
>A dirty mind is a joy forever. :-)

Much more of this and I'm going to wind up looking like TML Moral Majority
representative...


Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 10:36:13 -0800
From: crystal <crystal@postme.net>
Subject: (no subject)

unsubscribe traveller

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 02:41:53 GMT
From: jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com (Jeff Zeitlin)
Subject: [T97#2170] Traveller Books?

On Fri, 19 Dec 1997 13:53:50 -0500, you wrote:

>Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 16:41:02 +0200 (EET)
>From: Hakan Koseoglu <hkose@ada.com.tr>
>Subject: Traveller books?

>Here in Turkey Traveller is unheard. I am lurking in the list for about =
a
>year and I definitely want to play. Which books must I order, and from
>where? Any help will be appreciated.

>							Hakan

Replied privately.

- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jeff.zeitlin@mail.execnet.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 18:42:37 -0800
From: bmac@astro.ucla.edu (Bruce Alan Macintosh)
Subject: re: FFS2 question (fission/isotope power plants.)

>2.    The minimum size of a fission reactor seems to be inconsistent with
>reality.  The Russian Topaz reactor is quite small due to the use of direct
>conversion using thermionic diodes.
This is true. We inherited reactor sizes from FFS1, and they're quite
big. Possibly we should introduce low-efficiency/low-size reactors
like Topaz...though it's a niche technology for anything above TL9.

>5.    It doesn't seem possible to reproduce the thermo electric batteries
>that are used on spacecraft such as Gallileo.  Is there any plan to add in
>these designs?

Isotope RTG's like Galileo (or Cassini) are pretty much a niche 
technology by traveller standards - there are very few cases at high
TL's in which they're useful. (There aren't even a whole lot of 
cases at low TLs...) They're hard to model, too, since power
requirements in Traveller are (historically) very high. On the whole
I didn't think they were a big omission. If you want to include them,
someone should look up how much Cassini's RTG weighed (including
shielding...)

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 20:41:50 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Objection to "Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2190" and like subjects.

Newbie here, I thought we weren't supposed to use Subjects like
> Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2190
because it doesn't tell us non-digest subscribers anything.  If you have to
go through several hundred pieces of mail per day as I do (it's my job
man).  Then you know that an informative subject is very important.

Judging from the material in the post Allen Shock sent Thursday, January
01, 1998 1:59 PM, I would think a better subject might be "Random vs.
Point-based Character Generation" or even "Random vs. Structured CharGen."

Sincerely,

Richard

PS  OBTW, since it (see suggested subject above) is a matter of opinion and
preference does it really matter?  You will never convince the die hards
(no either side of the question) that you are right and they are wrong.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 21:51:45 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Layout of charts and tables

In a message dated 98-01-01 19:45:59 EST, you write:

<< The problem with translating that to
 equipment/vehicle design is length.  I'm afraid the checklist might be so
 long, several pages, as to seperate it from charts/tables/formulas too
 much.  >>

A checklist is not a detailed formula which covers every possible contingency.
It is a series of steps which must be followed in order to achieve the final
design goal. If (the current) FF&S is viewed as a first draft, then it is
possible to create a set of tables/charts which reflect some specific type of
vehicle being created, and to create checklists for modular goals...

A checklist for a powerplant.
A checklist for a chassis with locomotion.
A checklist for sensor packages.

Each of these could be produces as a set of charts and a checklist with (I
think) reasonable results). The ultimate goal for a the chart/checklist
process is to make the final design process as user friendly as possible.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 21:14:36 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Chocoholics

> >> Right after posting my last message, I remembered something. Chocolate
> >> is *toxic* to canines, and hence, probably to Vargr as well. 

> Vargr would also get drunk on alcohol just as easily as humans too. I'd
> guess chocolate liqueurs would be *big* sellers among Vargr.  ;->
> 
> Now, what about Aslan, K'kree, and <snicker> Hivers?  What recreational
> stimulants/depressants will they use?

Alcohol would probably do just fine for the Aslan.  Perhaps cat-nip tea
would be a real "picker-upper."

As for K'kree, have you ever seen a stoned cow?  I have, here in the
heartland, dairy and beef farmers are constantly on the look-out for them. 
If you have one stoned cow, look out, because soon you may have more.  They
get stoned on a local weed called Locoweed (spelling varies by locality). 
Perhaps the K'kree would enjoy something like that.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 21:02:36 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Layout of charts and tables

> From: Eris Reddoch <eris@pen.net>
> Date: Thursday, January 01, 1998 3:35 PM
>=20
> On 01/01/98 at 02:04 AM,  "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net> said:
>=20
> >The plan outlined below sounds good to me;=20

Errata:  I meant above above and not below.  This error came due to the
fact that the reply was moved after it was written and someone (I won't say
who) forgot to correct for the relocation.

> My draft of Marc's chargen for 4.1 is probably outdated it's so old, but it
> was pretty easy to follow.  The problem with translating that to
> equipment/vehicle design is length.  I'm afraid the checklist might be so
> long, several pages, as to seperate it from charts/tables/formulas too
> much.  It's probably just a difference in people, but I'd prefer to keep
> the *bare* instructions in sight of the tables/etc they refer to at all
> times.  Facing pages or a two column approach might be a good compromise.
> >I'm a gearhead.  On behalf of the gearheads, I would recommend that you
> >include the formula used to derive the tabular data where possible,
> >putting it/them in the text and at the bottom of the table or chart.
>=20
> Well, I *hate* formulas buried in the middle of text. ;->  It's the
buried,
> I hate, so if you put them in there how about italizing them, bolding
them,
> making them a large font size so they *really* stand out?

I could not agree more!  Perhaps I should have said with the text rather
than in the text.  The formula could also be placed as foot notes to the
text, to keep it out of the hair of the non-gear-heads.  But if it is in
the text do make it stand out.

=BA    =BA    =BA    =BA    =BA    =BA    =BA    =BA    =BA    =BA
=BA   I'll be Travelling Now,     =BA
=BA 	                                =BA
=BA   (s) Richard A. Flores       =BA
=BA 	                                =BA
=BA    =BA    =BA    =BA    =BA    =BA    =BA    =BA    =BA    =BA

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 10:00:42
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2187

At 08:17 AM 31/12/97 -0500, you wrote:
>
>From: HAL <hal@buffnet.net>
>Subject: Piracy and SHAME ON YOU...
>
>In light of the lack of manners from one specific member of the
>"anti-piracy" camp, this will be my last post on the topic.
>Unfortunately, I have better things to do with my time than to have
>someone treat me with the attitude of "HOW CAN YOU BE SO DENSE".  Pity, I
>thought the purpose of the mailing list was to enjoy it...
>
>  In any case:
>
>1) Criminals believe they won't get caught.  Unfortunately, there are a
>few that don't get caught, as well as the fact that some crimes take a
>while to catch up to the perps...  This is ultimately, a reason why piracy
>would exist - the belief that "I/we won't get caught".
>

Piracy in Traveller is not on the scale of Ned Kelly and friends, who with
equipment that is lying around most frontier households (viz, couple of
guns and some fast horses, and ,later, some scrap iron) could go into the
bandit business.

Piracy in Traveller is a criminal/commercial enterprise with a fixed
capital costs in the tens of megacredits, minimum.

>2) as with any defensive position having to wait for someone to launch an
>attack, the enemy (pirates in this case) will pounce when the circumstance
>for mounting a successful chance of piracy will include the factors that
>make a successful defense difficult.  Factors involved with launching a
>rapid response team to the area of difficulty include:
>
>  A) planetary based ships need time to gather their crew, and launch.
>Prelaunch checks need to be carried out prior to the launch.  Ordance must
>be loaded, or if loaded, must be upgraded from stand down status to alert
>status.>

Striker mark one book two states it takes a maximum of six turns (i.e.
three minutes). Call it 15 minutes for starships, plus five to get the crew
out of the ready room.

>  B) orbital forces positioned in space, if on patrol status will be able
>to respond, but only upon recieving the mayday, and will need to
>accellerate from a relative zero velocity towards the victim.  On a size 7
>world, it would take 1.1 hours for a 4g patrol ship to reach a ship that
>is 90 diameters away...   ample enough time for a pirate to do his deed
>and get underway.

The pirate also has the problem of matching vectors with the (presumably)
one gee merchant ship, that itself is heading outwards. 

A 20 gee missile will also be faster in making the rendezvous. Command
control missiles can presumably be ordered not to fire if it all turns out
to be a tragic mistake.

>
>  C) ships that are in space on patrol are likely to be pointing the wrong
>direction, with a vector that needs to be modified.  Even if by distance
>the naval ship is only 30 minutes away, it won't help if it needs 20
>minutes to turn around and get underway towards the ship being pirated.

You dont do random "sweep" patrols, you put the escorts with the outgoing
ships in a convoy. Random sweeps are appallingly inefficient.

And, once again, reasonably cheap passive sensors put the detection range
of oribital sensors well and truly at the 100 diameters limit.

>
>  Having said all this, there are countermeasures one can employ versus
>sensors.  The common most is powering down and going balistic.  During
>submarine warfare, all that needed to happen was for a torpedo to be
>launched based on the prediction of the target's speed and heading not
>changing in the time the torp was underway.  Likewise, a powered down
>intercept could work out rather well in this respect.

Unless your target adopts course changes. Convoys in WW2 did this
reasonably frequently.

Being on a ballistic course is also very very embarressing if you *do* get
tagged as a Bad Guy, as then you cant evade incoming fire.

>  Another counter measure would be the use of Jammers.  A ship inside the
>Jammer's umbrella, could make a course change while underway, and then
>power down - and exiting the umbrella.  Chances of spotting a ship while
>inside a powerful jammer's area of effect are a bit on the low side
>(realistically speaking).  One simple concept that would work, is the use
>of a small throwaway jammer, a jammer on the pirate ship, and time enough
>to use both.  A simple freighter intercepted 90 Planetary diameters away,
>is attacked and under jamming.  Merchant crew surrenders and is put on
>lifeboats (or just left to drift in vacc suits with a radio transmitter!)
>price crew then takes over, and changes course and accellerates at max
>speed.  Prior to exiting the strongest part of the area being jammed, they

Firstly, the freighter has it's chance to make a jump at 90 diameters. If
it does so, the pirate comes up empty, and has alerted the Planetary
Defense Forces for no good result.

Me, I would take my chances with a misjump, rather than trust a pirate who
will say "I'll let the witnesses to this theft of MCr 60 live".

Also I cannot recall where a jammer exists in Traveller that can prevent
detection via passive sensors. Jammers exist that can block tageting
solutions, yes, but not detection.

There is also the potential problem that a ship with such a jammer would
immediatly fail an inspection if passing as an "innocent merchant".
Therefore it will be a ship whose only role is war.

Jammers are also damn expensive.

>powerdown.  Pirate ship then takes off at full speed while jamming.  They
>head towards a prepositioned throwaway jammer, and activate it upon
>entering it.  They in turn change course and powerdown.  The defense
>system now has three tasks: pick up the survivors, find the missing
>freighter, and find the missing pirate ship.  If the pirates really wanted
>to be nasty, they take the merchant crew on board, and then prior to
>course change, they launch the crew in vacc suits.  They tell the
>planetary patrol what they have done, and broadcast it in the loud so the
>public can hear of it.  If the navy doesn't make some effort to rescue the
>merchant crew, what will the outcry be?

Firstly, with the Third Imperium we are talking a society that said "OK" to
the nuking of suspected pirate bases.

Secondly, lifeboats from torpedoed ships were routinely abandoned in WW2
while the escorts went chasing u-boats (check for example the fate of the
survivors of the Henry Luckenback in HX229 on the morning of 17 March 1943.
Three lifeboats got away, but were not picked up by any of the four escorts
that came across them, as they were either overloaded or busy. Ref Keegan,
The Price of Admirality, p 304).

Thirdly, at what ranges are we talking this happening ? If it is within
weapons range (a conservative 300 000 km) of the escort ship, the pirate is
running a truly awful risk, as it will be powered down and not evading.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 19:33:19 -0800 (PST)
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net>
Subject: THUDDD 8: Specifications

                           THUDDD 8: January 1998
                            Subsidized Merchant
                                      
Schedule

   1/1/98 (Thursday) Spec released
   1/11/98 (Sunday) Entry deadline
   1/13/98 (Tuesday) Voting begins
   1/25/98 (Sunday) Voting deadline
   1/28/98 (Wednesday) Results announced
   
Specifications

   [From the Imperial Ministry of Trade and Development, press release
   0026-281-0001, Capital/Core] 
   
   The Imperial Ministry of Trade and Development (IMTD) is pleased to
   announce the latest phase in its ongoing Trade Recovery and Extension
   (TRE) program. The TRE is a set of initiatives aimed at fostering
   greater trade within the Imperium and its friendly neighboring states.
   The goal of the program is to foster economic development on promising
   worlds which, due to vagaries of astrography or other factors, have
   not thus far fully participated in the economic renaissance
   accompanying the establishment of the Third Imperium. The new TRE
   phase now launched has been designated the "Vland-Coreward Trade
   Initiative" (VCTI).
   
  The vessel
  
   As one facet of the VCTI, bids are being solicited for a small
   cargo/passenger vessel to serve worlds in a loop described below. IMTD
   considers improved trade and transport coverage of this route so
   important that it will provide purchase and operating subsidies to
   these craft (see financial prospectus). However, contractors
   submitting bids for this vessel are warned that only limited subsidies
   are available, so the vessel should be designed to be as intrinsically
   profitable as is feasible given the route to be covered.
   
   It is expected -- and will be encouraged -- that these vessels will
   engage in "speculative" cargo transport. One difficulty currently
   being faced on the route in question is that rapidly changing needs
   for equipment, materials, and personnel are not being well served by
   larger bulk shipping operations. The IMTD feels that smaller, more
   flexible vessels can fill this gap and have a disproportionate
   positive impact on economic development in the region.
   
   The vessel must meet the following minimum requirements:

     * Jump-2
     * Capable of planetary landings
     * 200 dt cargo volume
     * 20 mid-passengers
       
   In addition, the vessel should be reasonably capable of defending
   itself in the event of combat. The Imperial Navy is actively
   investigating reports of piracy sponsored by states coreward of Vland,
   and should have the matter under control in the near future -- but it
   is best to take precautions.
   
   Also, concern for absolute theoretical profit maximization should be
   balanced with awareness of the ship's planned operational environment.
   Flexibility is a key asset in this vessel, as is reliability and (to a
   degree) self-reliance.
   
  The route
  
   The IMTD wishes to thank Sir Douglas Berry, K.S.C., for his invaluable
   assistance in developing the VCTI route and accompanying analysis. 
   
   All worlds are in the Vland sector:

   1919 Khula         B-475AAA-C  HiPop, Ind
   2017 Tahwer        C-769A88-8  HiPop
   2016 Guuiish       C-736344-6  NonInd, LoPop  2 GG
   1817 Tauri         A-130899-0  NonAg, Poor
   1717 Vland         B-967A44-B  Hi, Capital
   1719 Uushiish Uun  E-586466-5  Owned:1717     3 GG
   1919 (loop)

   Note that the data for Vland has been corrected from the erroneous
   version printed in most previous survey data. The ISS continues to
   investigate this probable act of data sabotage. 
   
   Tauri is the key to this loop. During the Long Night, this world lost
   its technology with particular thoroughness, but retained a stable,
   successful society despite the rigors of a barely-habitable ecosphere.
   During the early pre-Imperial period, vast lanthanum orebeds were
   discovered in Tauri's uninhabited highlands. Rather than permit
   unchecked offworld exploitation of these ores, the Imperial government
   has allowed only limited access to offworld interests, holding the
   ores in trust to Tauri's population. The ISS is coordinating a
   technology uplift effort aimed at restoring industrial technology to
   Tauri without disrupting the world's culture. Carrying specialized
   equipment, trade goods, and personnel to and from Tauri will be a
   critical aspect of the VCTI. To facilitate this, a class A starport
   has recently been opened on Tauri.
   
   Uushiish Uun is on the brink of becoming an important agricultural
   world. Providing a vigorous export market for specialty and gourmet
   agricultural products (to be sold at Khula or Tahwer) will help boost
   the world's economic development, and encourage further colonization
   of this underpopulated world.
   
   From Khula, the vessel would take high-tech goods to Tahwer, and high
   and medium tech to Guuiish. Raw and processed organics would probaly
   be welcome on Tauri, which would provide raw materials,
   locally-produced art, and the like for transport to Vland. Vland is
   another producer of finished goods, which support the growing colony
   on Uushiish Uun.
   
   The route works almost as well, but not as profitably, in the other
   direction. After the huge margin of profit selling from Vland to
   Tauri, a merchant would face three jumps worth of rising tech levels,
   and the planet best suited to make use of Tauri's resources lies at
   the end of the route. The IMTD projects that not more than one in five
   runs will go clockwise around the circut.
   
***

As always, this information and all further THUDDD 8 material can be found
via the THUDDD website:

  http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/thuddd.html

Questions, comments, and suggestions are always welcome!

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
 --*--    Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
   |      Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/   
       "Every man and every woman is a star."

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 11:48:23 -0800
From: crystal <crystal@postme.net>
Subject: Wind Tunnel simulation (was: Santa's Sleigh)

Richard Fields wrote:
> 
> In TML 2185 Roderick Darroch Elliott <rde@ican.net> wrote off handedly,
> 
> <snip>
> >    Ahhh... scratch and sniff.  Careful: you're dating yourself here :).
> >>   Hm...  but why stop at reindeer?  Just bioengineer batwings onto
> >>>them, plus the above mods, and you could not only get flying pigs, but
> >>>rocket-propelled flying pigs.
> <snip>
> 
> Isn't easier to tweak the existing genetic structures, reduce the pig's
> (or elephant's) overall size but increase and airfoil the ear size and
> cartilage structures. Add a modified cellulose digesting/methane producing
> bacteria to the gut. Then feed liberally on licorice and hay.
> The genetech required is only edit-DNA, you are using med(gene)tech with
> theory developed at TL7, prototyped at TL8, and viable at TL9.
> 
> Regards
> R.Fields
> New Zealand, a small group of islands south west of California.

Slightly off-topic here,
does anyone have any recommendations for a wind tunnel program?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 11:42:37 -0800
From: crystal <crystal@postme.net>
Subject: Re: field mice

Mark Urbin wrote:
> 
> Kenji Schwarz types:
> >Working as I do in biomedical research admin, I know of a simple and
> >entertaining device to stop this threat in its tracks:  the mouse
> >liquefiers.  It's a sort of souped-up blender that reduces lab mice to,
> >well, soup, in a fraction of the time it used to take to do it by hand.
> >They cost a fortune, of course, but they're extremely impressive in action.
> 
>    Back when my wife was doing medical research, she use to 'harvest' rats
> the same way the French used to 'harvest' nobles.  It's quick.  Thus
> avoiding the shock toxins a slow painful death causes.

Where can I buy these from?

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 22:03:16 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller -- Metrics Intuitive?!

> >>Inconsistency is the hobgoblin that has ruined more good RPG's than
> >>anything else.
>=20
> As someone old enough to have gone through school at the time Australia was
> converting from Lsd to Decimal currency and from Imperial Weights and Measures
> to Metrics I can assure you that metrics are *not* any more "intuitive" than
> Imperial measures. I think we could say that any system one is brought up with
> is *intuitive*, but I still find it easier and more meaningful to convert to
> Imperial measures when I need to know the magnitude of something.
>=20
> And, as an interesting case in point, as a High School teacher I have noted that
> my students rarely (in fact, I'd be more daring, and say *never*) know their
> height in Meters, but *always* refer to it in Feet and Inches. They tend to
> refer to their weight in Stones and Pounds more than they do in Kilos, though
> less decisively (around 80% rather than 100%).

As someone who is living in a land (the US of A) that is supposed to be
going metric, I understand the prospect first hand (not money, but I can
imagine).

An example of what I meant was do you know how many cubic yards (or feet or
inches) of water weigh a ton?  I know that in exactitude, a cubic meter of
water does not always weigh exactly a tonne, but it is pretty close (within
a fraction of a gram).  Densities are nearly always given with a standard
of pure water at a standard temperature being 1 or g/cc.  I always have to
convert from one to the other then back for anything like that.  I could
list other things as easily, but you get the idea.

And, no I have no idea what I weigh in kg (or stones) and don't care.  When
we actually finally and truly adopt the metric system and I am no longer
asked for my weight on official forms in lbs or my height in feet and
inches (or just inches), then, I will probably know it.

BTW, what does a stone equal?  Are those US pounds or Imperial?  Does a
pound of silver weigh the same as a pound of iron?  Don't know the answers
right off the top of your head to the last two?  Don't feel bad the only of
those questions I could have answered off the without a reference book was
the one about silver and iron.  (The answer is no for those of you who
don't know.  A pound of iron weighs 7000 grains and a pound of silver
weighs less.)

When I was in grade school (lower forms(?)/elementary school) we had never
even heard of a metric system.  I am still learning it, but as I said for
many parts, it IS more intuitive.  Especially for ship design, whether 1 Td
=3D 3 cubic meters or 14 cubic meters.

=BA    =BA    =BA    =BA    =BA    =BA    =BA    =BA    =BA    =BA
=BA   I'll be Travelling Now,     =BA
=BA	                                =BA
=BA   (s) Richard A. Flores       =BA
=BA	                                =BA
=BA    =BA    =BA    =BA    =BA    =BA    =BA    =BA    =BA    =BA

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 23:02:36 -0600 (CST)
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller Power Supplies

Christopher Thrash wrote (in GURPSNet): 

>  Design a GURPS laser rifle with 12d damage (say, a scaled-down TL9
>gatling laser), and I think you'll find a backpack power supply isn't so
>farfetched. 
   

  Okay, I took my own advice, with the following results: 

First, I discovered that you *can't* design a laser rifle with 12d damage.
Output energy of 999kJ gives 8d; 1000kJ gives 16d - go with the higher
number. 

A TL 8 Backpack Laser Rifle has 4 different power settings, with separate
performance statistics.
Constants are:  Empty weight 9 lb; Acc 15, SS 12, Rcl 0, Cost $5600. 

Dam     1/2D     Max     RoF     Shots 

16d+2   1600yd   3200yd  1       50 
7d-1    1300yd   2600yd  3~      75 
6d      1200yd   2400yd  4       100 
4d      800yd    1600yd  8       200 

The powerpack is 2xD-size power *slugs*, although somewhat more efficient
than the basic version (TL9 rather than TL8):  Weight 85lb (including
cable and connectors), Cost $500. 

Weight and performance correspond well to TNE statistics (9.3lb for the
rifle; 98lb for the pack). 

Conclusion:  GURPS Traveller should use power slugs, at least for energy
weapons, per UT2. 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 00:43:42 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2190

eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch) wrote:
>>that'd be Strephon stepping out of the shower.
>
>Ok! Ok! So shoot me! ;->

I'm sure Dulinor would be happy to oblige ...

;-)


                                        --- Derek Wildstar

wildstar@qrc.com -------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 00:41:58 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: Re: FF&S2 Questions

>From: "Eric Freitas" <edf@atlantic.net>
>1.    Is fuel for fission reactors stored separately, or is it contained
>within the reactor volume?

You compute the volume of the reactor and the fuel separately.  Because of
the way fission reactors work, the containment vessel of the reactor as
installed would include both the reactor core itself and the fuel.

It's done this way because the size of the reactor core will vary depending
on the amount of fuel that the reactor is designed to hold.  Assuming that
the power output will remain the same, the larger quantity of fuel would
allow you to run the reactor for longer between refueling.

>2.    The minimum size of a fission reactor seems to be inconsistent with
>reality.  The Russian Topaz reactor is quite small due to the use of direct
>conversion using thermionic diodes.

Two reasons, one specific and one general.  In specific, I didn't have any
data on the Topaz reactor, and so couldn't attempt to model it.  Secondly,
all of the various power plants tend to produce unrealistic results at the
extrememes of the range.  If you use the Internal Combusion plants rules
to try and reproduce a 2 horsepower Briggs and Stratton or a 0.020 cubic 
inch Cox model-airplane engine, it doesn't come out very well, either.

>3.    What are the radiator requirements for chemical power plants?

Chemical power plants are assumed to be operated in an atmospheric
environment that allows adequate cooling without specific surface area
requirements.  The power plant as computed includes the required ductwork,
radiators, and so forth.

>4.    Photoelectric systems don't make any sense.  The Area column appears
>to represent the radiator requirement

The area column is the area requirement for the collectors.  The additional
volume includes any needed power convertors power regulation equipment 
(generally located elsewhere), in additon to the collection arrays themselves.

>5.    It doesn't seem possible to reproduce the thermo electric batteries
>that are used on spacecraft such as Gallileo.  Is there any plan to add in
>these designs?

That's correct.  radio-isotope reactors - including the SNAP series, as well 
as the power sources for recent deep-space probes, aren't included in FF&S2.
I have some good data on the SNAP series of reactors, but not on newer
items.  I suspect that (due to the type of conversion technology used) that
the Russian Topaz reactor would be more correctly handled by rules like this.

It's something that would be nice to include, but I don't know if there
will be a follow-on volume to FF&S2 from IG, let alone what will be included.


                                        --- Derek Wildstar

wildstar@qrc.com -------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2194
***********************************

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Traveller-digest      Friday, January 2 1998      Volume 1997 : Number 2195



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Traveller Anime
remove
Re: GURPS Traveller
Re: Cylons in TNE
Re: GURPS Traveller
Re: GURPS Traveller
Re: Where the hell did they come from?
Metrics aren't Intuitive
Re: *field mice*
Re: The Sire in the Shower!
101 Lifeforms finally released.
Re: NOT BOB!!!!!
The Kessel run
Re: >*field mice*.
Re: Cylons in TNE
Re: >*field mice*.
Re: The Kessel run
Lord Sommerset class subsidized liner

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 01:02:21 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Anime

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:
>Hey! I think Kei & Yuiri would be *great* in Traveller. As a threat to
>the players if nothing else. :-)

And the rest of the universe!  Any group of 'troubleshooters' that manage
to destroy an entire planet as an accidental side-effect of rescuing a
kidnapped child ...

Come to think of it, my PCs have ocassionally done stuff like this.


                                        --- Derek Wildstar

wildstar@qrc.com -------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 01:37:13 -0500
From: Magnus <magnus@ij.net>
Subject: remove



------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 22:36:58 -0800
From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller

>>Because of this style I like in depth character generation, and I think
>>GURPS is pretty decent for this.
>
>Sure is, but building a character up during his career (ie Traveller) is
>pertty decent for this too, especially if the players are using the process
>to develop a backstory for their character as they go.

Each method has it's advantages, with GURPS I feel that you've got a better
idea what the character is capable of, well maybe not, but it's great for
discribing those special little abilities :^)

Traveller on the other had is great for building up a background, something
which point based systems such as GURPS quite admitadly are not.


>>>>Take a look at GURPS Lensman for example, it's a Space setting, but it

>That's a suppliment I don't have.  I saw it in a store a couple of years
>ago, didn't buy it then, was going to come back after payday and...you
>guessed it.  I haven't seen a copy since.

Amazingly that was exactly what happened to me, thankfully I was lucky
enough to find it used in a local Bookstore.  One of the few GURPS books
I've found used that I want.

>good suppliment to have.  Vehicles 2nd, I special ordered directly from
>SJG, and I'm glad I did because they sold out a few weeks later.  I saw
>where they will do a reprint in a couple of months.

Already on order with my FLGS, another case of foolishly deciding to wait
till next payday.  Now I'm smart, if I don't have the money, I have them
set it aside for me :^)

>I never bought the Atlases, Bestiary, or Aliens.  I either use Trav sectors
>or build my own, so the Atlases didn't appeal.  Aliens might be worth a
>look though, if it has a good design system.

I like the Atlases more for the planetary descriptions.  If I was to use a
map from another game, I'd probably use the one from Space Master.  As for
the Bestiary and Aliens, I don't think I've actually used either, and have
barely looked at them.  Sort of like all the Star Wars RPG books I bought
at a convention (got ~$1000.00 worth of books for less than $100, couldn't
pass that up, if you get a chance to go to a convention that WEG is at, go).

>>The thing about GURPS that really sucks is that there are so many good
>>books, and most are out of print.
>
>Isn't that the truth!  ;-> I'm *still* looking for Swashbucklers and
>Uplift.

At least they FINALLY reprinted Illuminati!  I swear most with most books
if you don't get them as soon as they come out, they're OOP!  You mentioned
the Compendium's and the Ultra Tech books in your first post, I'm not sure,
but I suspect you'd have a hard time finding a copy of any of them.  At
least I don't think they're available around here.

Let this be a warning to everyone, if you want GURPS Traveller, it might be
a good idea to get it the minute it comes out!

				Zane


| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/                       |
| For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them.    |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html            |

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 01:57:17 -0500
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@siscom.net>
Subject: Re: Cylons in TNE

Douglas E. Berry writes:

>>Am I correct in guessing you don't like "Blakes 7", or "Doctor Who" either?
>>Personally I think they're some of the greatest Sci-Fi shows ever, they're
>>all plagued with serious inconsistences though.  But then I like "Lost in
>>Space" (at least the first 6 episodes), so my taste in Sci-Fi might be
>>suspect :^)
>
>Blake's 7:  Coherent story arc, well defined characters, minimal
>techno-babble, well done on a very low budget.

   Probably the best of the British sci-fi shows actually, given the
budget it was made with.  Characters made this show.

>Dr. Who:  Great concept, wonderful actors, stories covering everything from
>light comedy to the deaths of major characters (who didn't cry at the end
>credits of the final episode of Earthshock, with Adric's broken pin..) Well
>done on a miniscule budget.

   We disagree here.  Enemies (particularly arch villians) were
cardboard cutouts.  Originial Star Trek series done on probably about
the same amount of money and had much better special effects, and more
believable gadgets.  The protrayal of Dr. Who depended largely on the
person playing the part (they were definately not equal).

>Battlestar Galactica:  One dimensional characters, poor acting,
>techno-babble through the roof (microns???) heavy reliance on stock footage
>(we used to joke that the Cylons were experts at just grazing the top fin
>of Vipers, since they made that shot at least three times an episode.),
>disconnected stories that did very little to advance the "search for Earth"
>storyline..

   Character development was occuring, granted at a slow pace, not
unusual for American TV series (compare M*A*S*H first season with
M*A*S*H fifth season).  Still, I found the main characters very
likeable, and the performances convincing (though I will admit that in
watching BG epsiodes about a year ago I concluded that Ms. Lockhart
(Sheba) couldn't act her way out of a wet paper sack).  Techno-babble
comes with American sci-fi in the post Star Wars era (even Bab 5 has its
share).  I would have liked to have seen more coherant technobabble, but
then I believe it was Star Wars that gave the line about doing the
Kessel Run using parsecs as a measure of time.  Stock footage became
necessary as a method of cost cutting (Buck Rodgers, the NBC TV series
was far worse in this department IMHO)--remember cheap special effects a
la Bab 5 that allow for massive epic space warfare doesn't exist yet.

   Ahead of its time.  Should never have been an American broadcast
network (ABC, NBC, CBS, etc.) TV series.  Broadcast TV networks take
good sci-fi premises and kill them.  Had it been a syndicated show that
premiered after Star Trek: The Next Generation blazed the trail, it
would have had similar success to Bab 5.  In its day (late 70s), could
have made a run of it as an occasional summer mini-series (5 new
espisodes a year) or as a series of movies in theatrical release (the
pilot with some additional footage from the first episode did well
enough in theatres to justify the making of "Galactica: 1980", a *truly*
bad TV series that most true BG fans don't like to talk about).

   As far as advancing the "search for Earth" storyline goes, you can
only find so many bits of evidence steering them toward Earth before
they have to find it or lose all credibility (Gillian's Island Syndrome:
*everyone* seems to have visited the island, but nobody bothers to tell
the authorities the Castaways are there).  Assuming you are on at least
a five year plan, naturally the evidence is going to be stretched out
over time.

>Very little comparison IMHO.

   The closest thing to Blakes 7 I can think of on American TV would be
the Twilight Zone (if B7 were turned into series of TZ episodes). 
Definately no comparison between B7 and BG, as they were doing different
types of sci-fi.

>The only good to come out of BG in my opinion was the shoot of Dirk
>Benedict reacting to a Cylon Warrior in the opening credits of "The A-Team."

   Dirk Benedict was essentially playing Starbuck, the likeable
scoundrel on "The A-Team".  The only major difference was that "Faceman"
didn't have a blonde girlfriend or a low recoil plasma pistol (though
the chrome plated assault rifles were nice).

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 23:17:21 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller

eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch) wrote

> Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net> said:

[snip of deiscussion of what you will need to run GURPS Traveller

> >A true GURPS Traveller referee will also need Gurps Illuminati to
> >reflect the truth about the illuminated Third Imperium, its Templar
> >inhabitants, and their secret master Cthul, er Grandfather.
> 
> Yeah, but not until the next edition when the Templars, Hivers, and
> GrandDad are included.

Templars, and Hivers, and Ancients, Oh My !
Templars, and Hivers, and Ancients, Oh My !


> What did I tell you guys?  GURPS is like potato chips, "No one can eat just
> one!"...oh, is that where BURPS comes from?

Actually BURPS stands for Boring Universal Role Playing System so you
must have another product in mind.

> >>  Can we figure out how to tack an
> >> "honest to god" Task System onto GURPS old-fashion Success System? 
> 
> >Maybe.
> 
> That's the big one for me!  So, do tell..how do we do it?

Deity only knows, nevertheless my suggestions follow.

Well I think that the GURPS system already provides very clear
definitions of Critical Success, Success, Failure, and Critical Failure.
What it needs for greater usefullness is an explicit, codified system,
more accurately describing the modifiers to skill roll required based on
the difficulty of the task.  I would suggest shamelessly stealing from
the MT task system.  I think that in Gurps terms each additional DiffMod
should be about a -3 or 4 to skill level.  A Difficult task would be
rolled against unmodified skill.  A Formidable task would be rolled at
- -3 or 4 (we should pick 1 or the other, a Staggering Task (which I have
added to MT) at -6 or -8, and an Impossible Task at -9 or -12.
We could than add the concept of Marginal Success and define it as any
skill roll that _just_ succeedes. The 3d6 ( - postive task DM's ) used
for task time determination could also be brought into GURPS maybe as
3d6 - (Skill/4 (round down)) = modifier.

> 
> >Advantages & disadvantages are one of my favorite parts of Gurps charecter
> >generation & are something I have always wanted to see in Traveller.
> 
> The thing I don't like about Ads/Disads is how they affect character points
> during chargen.  I simply don't like "balanced characters" as a concept, I
> prefer random ones.

If you do not like balance have the players generate the charecters on
50 + 3d6 x 5 points or so, or even on d6 x d6 x d6 x d6 points if you
really want diverse point totals. [This would yield an modal point total
of 150 points and a range of between 1 point and 1,296 points - this
should give enough diversity for most charecters.

Note that if you are converting an established MT charecter with
powerfull Psionic powers 1,296 points may be nowhere near enough.  In
GURPS psionic powers cost more points for range then they do in
Traveller, especially MT.

>  That makes me different from your average GURPSian,
> but so be it.  I *do* like the ad/disad concept to give character to
> characters, though.

"character to characters" - This sounds as if it is a minimum
requirement.  I am reminded of the comment that the average role playing
charecter is lucky to have 2 dimensions, much less 3.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 00:27:53 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller

> I like the Atlases more for the planetary descriptions.  If I was to use a
> map from another game, I'd probably use the one from Space Master.  As for
> the Bestiary and Aliens, I don't think I've actually used either, and have
> barely looked at them.  Sort of like all the Star Wars RPG books I bought
> at a convention (got ~$1000.00 worth of books for less than $100, couldn't
> pass that up, if you get a chance to go to a convention that WEG is at, go).

I have those books as well, and have used the Alien Races and Bestiary a
lot.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 01:39:16 -0800
From: "Edward Swatschek" <edjs@mindlink.net>
Subject: Re: Where the hell did they come from?

> From:          "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
> Subject:       Where the hell did they come from?
> Date:          Thu, 1 Jan 1998 16:20:35 -0000
>
> I've just found 2 posts (by me) in Digest2170 that I sent out months ago! 
> What's going on?

Dejavue. (I noticed a post of mine, sent to the list in 
mid-December, appearing a couple of days ago.)


- --
Edward Swatschek  *  edjs@bitslayer.net
                     edjs@mindlink.net

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 10:09:16 GMT
From: aspqrz@curie.dialix.com.au (Phillip McGregor)
Subject: Metrics aren't Intuitive

On Fri, 2 Jan 1998 01:02:46 -0500, you wrote:

>And, no I have no idea what I weigh in kg (or stones) and don't care.  Wh=
>en
>we actually finally and truly adopt the metric system and I am no longer
>asked for my weight on official forms in lbs or my height in feet and
>inches (or just inches), then, I will probably know it.

I have the exact opposite problem. When someone asks me for my height and weight
I give the former in Feet and inches (and I think I could get by with that on
official forms, I know hospitals still record feet and inches from personal and
recent experience ... or, actually, record both) and the latter in kilos or
stones/pounds depending on my mood ;-)

>BTW, what does a stone equal?  Are those US pounds or Imperial?  Does a

A Stone = 14 pounds. As far as I know US lbs and Imperial lbs were the same.

>pound of silver weigh the same as a pound of iron?  Don't know the answers

You're joking? And which falls to the earth faster? a *pound* of iron weighs one
pound, as does a *pound* of feathers. That's about as old as methuselah!

Now, if you're specifying Pounds Avoirdupois (12 ozs rather than 16 ozs to the
pound), then thats diffent.

>right off the top of your head to the last two?  Don't feel bad the only of
>those questions I could have answered off the without a reference book was
>the one about silver and iron.  (The answer is no for those of you who
>don't know.  A pound of iron weighs 7000 grains and a pound of silver
>weighs less.)

12ozs as opposed to 16ozs.

We used Metrics for Science and, sometimes, for Maths. More often we used
Imperial measures for maths. Still, *I* find Miles easier to relate to than
Kilometers, pounds easier to relate to than kilos and pints easier than liters.

And, anyway, just because you Yanks had the bad manners to leave the Empire and
had to prove it by doing *everything* differently doesn't mean *we* have to
worry about US measures rather than Imperial!

(Which is one of the reasons why I wrote an article on it for "Dark Star #2")

Phil
- ---------------------------------------------
Phillip McGregor | aspqrz@curie.dialix.oz.au
Co-designer, Space Opera (FGU)
Author, Rigger Black Book (FASA)
Designer, Standard Role Playing (PGD)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 01:20:47 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@ALASKA.NET>
Subject: Re: *field mice*

"Tsykoduk" <tsykoduk@sprynet.com> wrote

[re choclate]

> > Probally not.. If I remeber right it puts them into anaphlipiic 
> > (spelling?) shock, and can kill them.
> 
> My wife has the same reaction.. When she smells choclate, she gets 
> queasy. If she eats to much, she cannot breath correctly. If she OD's 
> she will stop breathing and die.

Without intending any disrespect towards your wife or her condition -
what a way to go :)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 01:18:05 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: The Sire in the Shower!

eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch) wrote

> Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com> said:
> 
> >Eris seems to have gotten his characters mixed up a little by the way: 
> >that'd be Strephon  [not Cleon] stepping out of the shower.
> 
> Ok! Ok! So shoot me! ;->
> 
> You must admit it *would* be interesting if it was Cleon stepping out of
> the shower, though. ;->

OK here is the scenario of why and how Emperor Cleon was stepping out of
Emperor Strephons shower a thousand years or so after he was supposed to
be dead.  Please do not tell this secret to any actual inhabitants of
the Third Imperium.

Gather around and listen as I tell a story of long ago and far away.

Faek zaeknue, or once upon a time, long ago, there lived in a grand
plance a prince among Humans, the Roukh Cleon.  Cleon was a hero among
men, strong and brave and well respected by all.  The time had come for
the Vaegarrgh, the Long Night among the Humans, to end and Cleon who had
been born to a high place and achieved a higher one through his glory
was the man to end it.  The story of this Empire is the story for
another night.  This is the story of Cleons return.

It came to pass that half a century, as the humans reckon time, had
passed since the creation of the Third Imperium.  Tadafa had come to
him, or as the humans would say it age was nipping at the great and well
respected Cleon as no enemy ever had.  One night Cleon lay sleeping and
a mysterious being appeared.  The great Cleon was alone in his errta,
his suite, with his thoughts while his Ngoerrghsarrgh, his Emperors
Guard, kept him safe by watching from a distance.

An ilksang aegzva, or strange being, being appeared out of thin air
before Cleon.  Cleon called for his guard but no answer came.  It was as
if time itself had stopped.  The being turned to look at Cleon, who even
ravaged by age was still a ghoerrg, a hero, and he was sore afraid.  The
being said unto him "Be you not afraid."  And Cleon was not afraid.  The
being said unto Cleon "Your time here is done.  Will you come with me ?" 

Cleon said "Is it time for me to goersghengig, to die ?"  The mysterious
stranger replied " No, it is time for you to goersghekfe, to begin anew.
I, and your Empire, have need of you elsewhere, there is a uerzdezlurz,
a great force for you to vanquish, there." Cleon said "If I am needed
elsewhere, I will llurghngoez, or leave my people.

The Ilksangargh held forth its knaerssourz, its four fingered paw. 
Cleon reached forth and took the paw.  Cleons adventure began.

Back in the Emperor Cleons quarters the guards watching him saw his
lifsigns fading.  They called quickly for the Doctors.  The wise men
labored to bring back the spark of life to Cleons body but it was to
late.  

Cleons oerrgh, his life, was over, or so his people belived.  The word
went forth that Cleon had died and there was much lamentation.

Elsewhere Cleon fealt strange things happening to his body.  In the
course of a azsaesu, a watch, his body lost two thirds of its age and
Cleon was a man in his prime.

The mysterius stranger appeared before Cleon and spoke.  "Cleon your
Empire now had a weak man on its throne, he allows his runag, his
advisors too much influence.  He is a good man but he does not have your
ghaguen, your ability."

Cleon stepped forward and suddenly a room appeared around him. He found
himself in a tsukho, a palace.  Many saargh, reacted rapidly drawing
weapons and preparing to  khuengngig, to be murderous toward, this
intruder.  Cleon heard some of them mutter, ina strangely accented
Galanglic, something about "Zho Commando in the Octagon !" A man of
middle years, wearing the Irridium Circlet Cleon had left beside his
bed, waved for the guards to not fire.

The man on the throne, Cleons throne, said to him "Who are you ?"  Cleon
replied "I am The Emperor Cleon I, Grand Duke of Sylea, Etc.  Who are
you, and what are you doing with my crown ?"  The man replied "I am the
Emperor Strephon I, Archduke of Sylea, Duke of of Core, Marquis Usdiki,
Etc.  This is fagnaithllouellarrgh, or _my_ Interstellar Empire.  It is
the 131st day of the year 1116 and the man you are pretending to be has
been dead for almost 1000 years."

Cleon sensed an air of weakness from this "Strephon" almost as if he
were not who he claimed he was.  Cleon said "I am not dead.  I am here. 
Therefore according to the terms of the Hvaekgnaithlloellarrgh, The
Warrant of Restoration, Article II, paragraph 4 _I_ am the Emperor."

The man Strephon than had his guard seize Cleon.  Cleon was taken unto a
medical laboratory with strange devices he did not recognize.  The
Doctors there exaimined him.  After a short time they said that the DNA
scan proved that he was indeed Cleon.  They than began a long and
strange test Cleon did not understand muttering something about "testing
for clonal pattern fade".  Islae, soon they brought Cleon back to see
this Strephon, this time in a private audienc chamber. The man Strephon
said unto Cleon  "You seem to be whom you claim to be.  I will refer
this matter to the Aeroukhrunag, the Moot."  Strephon than spoke to a
young woman, who was dressed as a high noble and looked strikingly
similar to Strephon, his heir perhaps, sitting next to him and said
"Iphegenia please have all my  meetings for the next 48 hours
cancelled.  Please deliver my personal apologies to Terlyaruiwo
Ambassador."  The young woman turned her eyes upon Strephon with surpise
and anger flashing in them.  Once again Cleon sensed that not all was as
it seemed with this man Strephon.

And so concludes my story. 

"You all know the rest of the story, of how this Moot could not agree on
who was to be Emperor, or how other claimants to the Throne appeared, of
how the Third Imperium collapsed, of how the people, the Vargr, now
ksaenarsku ke gang human ngekdues, take protection money from and raid
human merchants. You know the glory of fuenrag, of taking for better
use, their goods.  You know that this is a gloroius time. "

"I am Griszoung thorknoutz saerrgh, Grisoung the storyteller, who was
once the  shipowner Griszoung before I heard the truth of the
Ourrghfaengaeknokskugvorrgh, the Church of the Chosen Ones.  This has
been the story of how destiny favors us."

The tale of Griszoung as told to the people of Gvurrdon [Gvurrdon 0821]
on 147 - 1129, as the Imperials date things.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 12:18:02 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: 101 Lifeforms finally released.

101 Lifeforms is now available from BITS (Digest 2179 has a possible
overseas supplier, or you can go straight to Andy Lilly (
A.S.Lilly@nortel.co.uk ).

It has 102 different lifeforms classified by habitat type, with a
description, refs notes and habitat notes, not to mention stats. Some of
the creatures are illustrated, and there are additional notes on use of
skills and tasks by creatures, and adaption to none-Terran environments.
All the creatures are listed in an index/reference chart at the end.

I won't review it as I was involved in writing it, but would appreciate it
if someone unbiased could do so for the list.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 08:21:53 EST
From: CardSharks <CardSharks@aol.com>
Subject: Re: NOT BOB!!!!!

In a message dated 98-01-01 16:44:29 EST, you write:

<< why did it have to be Bob McLain >>

Well, we tried someone else, and that didn't work. It seems logical to try
someone else.

Marc

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 08:23:01 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: The Kessel run

> ...I believe it was Star Wars that gave the line about doing the
> Kessel Run using parsecs as a measure of time.

If the Kessel Run was a group of stops that had to be made in order to be
completed, then the question is one of Navigation.  It's like the classic
sales calls equation, only in 3 dimensions.  With endless combinations one
will be better than all the rest.  The shortest distance travelled would be
the best combination.  Maybe it wasn't a measure of time, but rather a
measure of distance (i.e.:  he worked out the best route to date).

Or maybe not.

=BA     =BA     =BA     =BA     =BA     =BA     =BA     =BA     =BA=20
=BA      I'll be Travelling Now,     =BA
=BA	                                   =BA
=BA      (s) Richard A. Flores       =BA
=BA	                                   =BA
=BA     =BA     =BA     =BA     =BA     =BA     =BA     =BA     =BA=20

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 11:20:54 -0500
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@topgun.cinecom.com>
Subject: Re: >*field mice*.

At 10:55 AM 1/2/98 EST, you wrote:
<Snip>...
>> 
>> Beer, wine. A culture could consider these to be "rotten" grain/fruit
>> just as the Chinese consider cheese to be "rotten milk". ...
>

Remember the  film, Alien Nation?  Remember what the aliens got tanked on?
Spoilt, gooey, milk...

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 10:13:49 +0000
From: "Will" <panzer@mail.sisna.com>
Subject: Re: Cylons in TNE

> 
> >Battlestar Galactica:  One dimensional characters, poor acting,
> >techno-babble through the roof (microns???) heavy reliance on stock footage
> >(we used to joke that the Cylons were experts at just grazing the top fin
> >of Vipers, since they made that shot at least three times an episode.),
> >disconnected stories that did very little to advance the "search for Earth"
> >storyline..
> 
But you have to it was fun to watch at the time
 
The Official Firebase Games Web Site
http://www.sisna.com/users/panzer/

ICQ#2739566

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Jan 98 11:50:40 -0700
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: >*field mice*.

On 12/20/97 6:04 AM, Leonard Erickson said:

>In mail you write:
>
>> "People on this planet put chocolate in their mouth?  And _eat_ it?"
>> (blushing furiously, edging away in horrified fascination).
>
>Right after posting my last message, I remembered something. Chocolate
>is *toxic* to canines, and hence, probably to Vargr as well. 

Actually, chocolate is toxic to *humans* as well.

It's just that the quantities needed to make it kill you are far beyond 
what humans normally eat.

I'm not sure if canine toxicity is due to something inherently different 
in their metabolism; or if it is just because they are generally smaller 
in mass, and able to wolf (pun intended) down large amounts of chocolate 
in a very short period of time.

------------------------------

Date: 02 Jan 1998 12:38:23 -0500
From: edgar@beckett.rmaonline.net (Mr. Whipple)
Subject: Re: The Kessel run

"Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net> writes:

> If the Kessel Run was a group of stops that had to be made in order to be
> completed, then the question is one of Navigation.  It's like the classic
> sales calls equation, only in 3 dimensions.  With endless combinations one
> will be better than all the rest.  The shortest distance travelled would be
> the best combination.  Maybe it wasn't a measure of time, but rather a
> measure of distance (i.e.:  he worked out the best route to date).

In a Star Wars novel whose name I forget, the Kessel system and planet 
could only be reached by threading a tortuous path among several
highly dangerous, closely spaced stellar phenomena.  One could reduce
transit time by navigating closer to the dangerous bodies, thus
reducing the twistiness of one's path, but this made the task much
more dangerous.

I extrapolated from this basically what Richard Flores is thinking.
The better your navigation is, the shorter would be your total
distance travelled in visiting and leaving the planet. On the other
hand, piloting and the fineness of your ship's tune would limit just
how close a shave you can survive.

- --
Edgar Whipple       Have clue, will travel.
ewhipple@rma.edu    "Budgies?! We doan need no stinkin *budgies*!!"

        Microsoft is not where I want to go today.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 12:59:47 -0500 
From: "Svenson, Gregory (FL51)" <gsvenson@space.honeywell.com>
Subject: Lord Sommerset class subsidized liner

I am using a modified Lord Sommerset in my campaign. With FF&S2 coming
out I decided to try to produce a T4 design for it. This is the result
of my efforts. Thanks to Andrew Akins for his excellent spreadsheet
program!

- -----------------------------------------------------------------

Lord Sommerset class subsidized liner (FF&S v2)
Designed by Greg Svenson

Based on the original version published in "Adventure Class Ships 
Volume 2 Book 1" copyright FASA 1981.

Statistics:
Tons: 600 std (SL Box)	Crew: 10/14		Cargo: 120 std
Volume: 8,400 m3   	Passengers H/M: 10/20	Cost: 121.529 MCr
Mass(L/C): 5,367/3,318t	Passengers Low: 20	Maint. points: 126
Dimensions: 32.3m x 16.1m x 16.1m		Troops/Science: 0/0
Tech Level: 12		Size: 8			Frozen Watch: 0

Electronics:
Controls: Dynamic, Std automation, 3xComp (CM:0.6, CP:1.67), no bridge
Communications: 1xradio (50,000 km, 0.02 MW), 2xlaser (1,000AU, 0.0MW)
Sensors: 1xPEMS (12.5 [1.6m km], 0.0MW), 1xAEMS (11 [0.16m km], 0.25MW)
Survey/Science:
ECM:
Signatures: 
Vis:-0.5, IR:0.0 (1 at 231MW, 0 at 26MW), Act:0.5, Neu:0, Grav:0

Weaponry:
2xLight Laser Turret (+0) 1/1-1-1-1 [1,50/26-26-26-26]

Performance:
3 Jump (60std/pc fuel)
1.0/1.6 Maneuver (Thruster:134 MW)
1.0/1.6 Contra-Grav (91MW)
1,843kph/2,872kph Atmosphere
1,382kph/2,154kph Cruise
1 Power (Fusion+: 262MW, 2,190 hours (3 months))
180.0 Fuel (Scoop:1 Purification:24, 4MW)
10/4/20/20/11 Accommodations
176 Life Sup. (St,Ex/St)
2 G-Comp
0 ESA
0 Sandcasters
10 [40] Armor
16 Structure

Features:
5xAirlock			1xDecontamination Airlock
1xDocking Umbilical		1xship's locker(0.3std)
2xArmory(0.14std)		1xGym(2.5std)
1xPassengers Lounge(20std)	1xOrdinary (crew) Galley(Cap:14)
1xFull (passengers) Galley (Cap:30)

Small Craft:
1xDocking Ring(20std)

Crew Details:
2xMnvr, 1xElec, 6xEngr, 2xGunn, 1xCmnd, 1xStew, 1xMed

The Lord Sommerset class subsidized liner is very common in the Spinward
Marches, servicing many worlds that are unable to support regular service 
by the Mega Corporations. The long jump ability allows it to serve worlds
that are off the beaten track and could not be served by the many Free
Traders and Far Traders that operate in the region. 

Many versions have been built over the years to accommodate the various 
needs of the builders. Some have a minimum number of staterooms to allow
handling more cargo while others have fewer cargo holds to allow carrying 
of additional passengers. There are several that have been built with 
casinos on board and others have even been outfited as privateers.

The Lord Sommerset provides ample cabins for passenger service as well as
low berths for the commoners. Passengers can enjoy passing their travel
time in the passenger's lounge with it's dance floor, game tables, holo
viewing area and dining area, which is supplemented by a full kitchen. 
They can even keep in shape in the fully equipped gym. The lounge has a 
transparent dome allowing passengers to enjoy the views of space while 
they are relaxing. The dome can become opaque at the flip of a switch for 
those times when the view would not be enjoyable.

The cargo area is divided into six twenty ton bays, each with a large
hatch and a 4 ton automated cargo handler to make loading and unloading
fast and efficient.

The primary maneuver drive uses the latest in Thruster Plate technology.
However, when more power is needed on high G worlds the backup Conta-Grav
Lifters can be used at the same time. In atmosphere she is capable of
travelling at speeds of over 2,800kph. 

For worlds where there are limited starport facilities, the Lord Sommerset
is equipped with fuel scoops and a fuel purification plant that can convert 
a full load of fuel in 24 hours. She is streamlined to allow skimming of
gas giants, as well.

The Lord Sommerset carries a 20 ton ship's boat for emergency shuttle 
services and to land on worlds with too great a gravity well for her to 
land.
- ---------------------------------------------------------------

Greg Svenson
gsvenson@space.honeywell.com

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2195
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Friday, January 2 1998      Volume 1997 : Number 2196



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Cylons in TNE
Re: Feedback
Re: Snow sled
Re: Metrics aren't Intuitive
Re: The Kessel run
Re: Coronation- done right.
Re: GURPS Traveller
Re: Metrics aren't Intuitive
Re: GURPS Traveller
Re: Feedback
TL12 20 000 km Nuke Damper
TL12 Chunky Meson Screen
Re: The Kessel run
Re: IG is not going under (ZZzzzz)
Re: Active sensors
Re: Active Sensors
Re: The Kessel run
Re: The Kessel run
RE; Not Bob!
Re: GURPS Traveller
Re: Coronation- done right.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Jan 98 18:14 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Cylons in TNE

In-Reply-To: <v03110705b0d0bad20e55@[207.220.32.94]>

Zane,

> >BBC2 is repeating BG at the moment. It's even worse than I remembered.
>
> Am I correct in guessing you don't like "Blakes 7", or "Doctor Who" either?

Nope, I like 'em both. I've got the full set of B7 vids and DW was the first 
TV show ever to give me nightmares!

> But then I like "Lost in
> Space" (at least the first 6 episodes), so my taste in Sci-Fi might be
> suspect :^)

Extremely!
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Jan 98 18:14 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Feedback

In-Reply-To: <34AAEE4A.6D4B964B@iname.com>

J-Man,

> > eg
> > $50 might get you a knighthood
> > running a game at a con might get you the same
> > 
> > Most titles also come with some land (entire planets or even subsectors for 
> > higher titles), which become the official property of the player. The owners 
> > are encouraged to submit write-ups for publication. They can also interact 
> > with each other, in a kind of enormous PE game, with any important events 
> > being reported in JTAS.
> > 
> > A coordinator will be required to look after this.
>  
> Hey that sounds pretty cool.

I've been thinking more about it. Joining CotI gets you 1 Citizen Point. 
Subscribing to JTAS gets you another. Winning competitions gets you more, as does 
running con games. You can also buy them for, say, $15 each, or you can be paid 
by IG in CP instead of cash (say 1CP/$10) for writing stuff for them (includes 
stuff published in JTAS). When you reach 10CP, you can cash them in for a 
Knighthood, or carry on collecting them (20CP=Baron etc). You may also be able to 
cash them in for free Traveller books.

What's in it for us? The chance to officially become a part of the Traveller 
universe.

More importantly, what's in it for IG? Answer = *MONEY!* We give them money and 
receive 'nothing' in return, and they get the chance to pay their writers 
'nothing'. The fact that this 'nothing' is actually worth quite a bit to us 
doesn't matter to their accountants. 
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 09:05:15 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Snow sled

At 12:04 PM 1/1/98 -0500, you wrote:

>In an unrelated note, I know my web page has most of the vices
>possible (black background, and very little actual content :) but it
>will have to be moved soon, and I will improve it then.  Be patient
>please. :)  Oh and what should I tell all those AOL users that think
>my link on Traveller grenades means I have real grenades to sell
>them!?!

To date, I have recieved three emails asking Gridlore Technologies about
purchasing real-world gun parts.  I take great glee in responding that I'd
be happy to, but there will be a slight delay in shipping since the company
won't be founded for another 5000 years and is wholly fictional at this point.

- --

+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry    | 
+-------------------------------------+
| "I created the universe; give ME    |
|  the gift certificate!!"            |
|        - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 10:25:40 -0800
From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Metrics aren't Intuitive

>>pound of silver weigh the same as a pound of iron?  Don't know the answer=
>>s
>
>You're joking? And which falls to the earth faster? a *pound* of iron
>weighs one
>pound, as does a *pound* of feathers. That's about as old as methuselah!

Reminds me of a demonstration I once saw.  I guy had about five metal
ingots lined up in a row, all about the same size.  You picked them up,
left to right.  Each one got heavier, until you got to the final ingot, it
was the lightest, and most people at that point seriously over compensated.

			Zane


| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/                       |
| For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them.    |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html            |

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 10:20:02 -0800
From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: The Kessel run

>> ...I believe it was Star Wars that gave the line about doing the
>> Kessel Run using parsecs as a measure of time.
>
>If the Kessel Run was a group of stops that had to be made in order to be
>completed, then the question is one of Navigation.  It's like the classic
>sales calls equation, only in 3 dimensions.  With endless combinations one
>will be better than all the rest.  The shortest distance travelled would be
>the best combination.  Maybe it wasn't a measure of time, but rather a
>measure of distance (i.e.:  he worked out the best route to date).

I've always thought it meant that he took a short cut, in fact IIRC one of
the Star Wars novels released in the last few years explains this.
Something about him going through a region of space that was considered
unpassable.

				Zane


| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/                       |
| For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them.    |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html            |

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 21:04:22 +0000 ()
From: kraehe@bakunin.hb.north.de (Michael Koehne)
Subject: Re: Coronation- done right.

Moin Ian,

> This is a ship I can easily imagine the Imperium building.

	imho the ship is no so bad at all, even if its not a battleship
	but a cruiser compared it with a CA 12 in MT-Fighting Ships. And
	unlike the late 3I battleships it was never intended to see a
	ship willing to fight. I would asume that the largest ship a
	Coronation saw was the "Aek Naz" - Vargr Cruiser 30000dt

	This ship has only 1G/Jump2, with 50E armor.

	Main stats :

	 1 Particle Accellerator 13-13-13-11
	 2 Plasma Gun Bays        4-3-2-1
	25 Beam Laser Barbetts    4-2-0-0
	25 Missile Barbetts
	66 Sand Caster Turrets
	 5 Repulsor Bays

	And those ships, together with the lighter Foghogs, not only stoped
	the imperial expansion in 185, they carried the war deep into imperial
	sectors and forced the peace of 191.

	Because of this war, ships of 100.000dt later only classify as
	Armored Cruiser. A new design was build for the "line of battle"
	- the 300.000dt BB12 substandart for colonial forces without a
	  meson screen
	- the 700.000dt BI13 for the imperial forces of course with a
	  meson screen

> The main weapon barely extends to one light-second, and the secondary
> weapons suite is questionable in it's ability to stop a strike of 250 or so
> nuke-det missiles.

	340.000km is the EFFECTIVE range ! the maximum range is therefore
	2720.000km 9 light seconds.

> In time of war, it will be a safe posting, for no sane admiral will ever
> risk one in line of battle.

	Well the imperial lost 2 depots. One in Antares, one in Ley, its
	not known how many Coronation a depot had for defense.

- -- 
 mailto:kraehe@bakunin.north.de		http://human.is-bremen.de/~kraehe
		" CETERUM CENSEO MSDOS ESSE DELENDAM "

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 15:22:17 -0500 (EST)
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller

"Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> >>>>Take a look at GURPS Lensman for example,
>
> >That's a suppliment I don't have.  I saw it in a store a couple of years
> >ago, didn't buy it then, [...]  I haven't seen a copy since.
> 
> One of the few GURPS books I've found used that I want.

Let me put it this way: _GURPS Lensman_ was the supplement that turned me
into a GURPS customer for SJ Games.  I saw it when it was new (it caught my
eye, even though I wasn't looking at the GURPS rack, because it has a Frank
Kelly Freas* cover), and bought it and the GURPS basic rules on the spot. 
I've since gone back for some of the other supplements.

> At least they FINALLY reprinted Illuminati!  I swear most with most books
> if you don't get them as soon as they come out, they're OOP!

And most of them are never reprinted, so if you're even vaguely interested,
you need to buy it as soon as it comes out.  "Beanie Babies" marketing for
RPGs, I guess.

> Let this be a warning to everyone, if you want GURPS Traveller, it might be
> a good idea to get it the minute it comes out!

Or pre-order the puppy.


* I have yet to be dissapointed by buying things on the basis of Freas
  artwork.  I guess it's an indicator of good taste on the part of the
  editor and publisher.


wildstar@qrc.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                  Prepare the Wave Motion Gun!

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Jan 98 20:53 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Metrics aren't Intuitive

In-Reply-To: <34b0bb20.39736253@mail.curie.dialix.com.au>

Phillip,

> I have the exact opposite problem. When someone asks me for my height and weight
> I give the former in Feet and inches (and I think I could get by with that on
> official forms, I know hospitals still record feet and inches from personal and
> recent experience ... or, actually, record both) and the latter in kilos or
> stones/pounds depending on my mood ;-)

Yeah, I tend to do that. I try to use metric for everything, but annoyingly feet 
and inches seem to fit Real Life better!

I suppose it's appropriate to use Imperial units for Traveller...
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 12:53:17 PST
From: "Greg Smith" <montecristo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller

<<Sure, this is just the GURPS Success System from B86.  What I'm 
talking about are *tasks* describable as Routine, Formidable, etc where 
the DM's have standard meanings. Something like:>>

<Bah, task systems!  Back in the days of the Little Black Books (REAL 
CT), we just had dice modifiers!  None of this sissy 'Routine' stuff  
AND WE LIKED IT!  (just kidding, folks...)

We always just said, "You can't do that!" or the GM would just roll 
behind the screen and (after considering the ramifications of the 
decision) say, with mock incredulity, "I can't believe it!  You did it!"

But I think the task system looks interesting (never having used it....)

Greg

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 12:52:26 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Feedback

> I've been thinking more about it. Joining CotI gets you 1 Citizen Point. 
> Subscribing to JTAS gets you another. Winning competitions gets you more, as does 
> running con games. You can also buy them for, say, $15 each, or you can be paid 
> by IG in CP instead of cash (say 1CP/$10) for writing stuff for them (includes 
> stuff published in JTAS). When you reach 10CP, you can cash them in for a 
> Knighthood, or carry on collecting them (20CP=Baron etc). You may also be able to 
> cash them in for free Traveller books.
> 
> What's in it for us? The chance to officially become a part of the Traveller 
> universe.
> 
> More importantly, what's in it for IG? Answer = *MONEY!* We give them money and 
> receive 'nothing' in return, and they get the chance to pay their writers 
> 'nothing'. The fact that this 'nothing' is actually worth quite a bit to us 
> doesn't matter to their accountants. 


I take it you aren't really serious.  :)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 21:14:31
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: TL12 20 000 km Nuke Damper

	
At TL12, the best range for a Nuke Damper IMO is 20 000 km, because TL12
det lasers only go out to 15 000 km.

A TL12 20 kkm nuke damper is 51m3, masses 51t, takes up 5m2 surface area,
needs 10 megawatts and costs 1.4 megacredits, including beam pointer.

6.67 m3 of TL12 batteries, to power the damper for one hour, will mass
13.34 tons and cost KCr 33.4

It will need a standard workstation - 7.5 m3, 0.2t and KCr 1.5.

The whole unit will therefore take up 65.17 m3, mass 64.54t, take up 5m2
and cost MCr 1.335.

This is fairly close to 5 displacement tons, 65 tons, 5m2 of surface area
and MCr 1.4.

Remember, after the first hour of the combat, you will need to allocate
10MW of power from the power plant to run the damper.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 22:19:58
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: TL12 Chunky Meson Screen

	
My intemperate comments about the Coronation class (very impressive. Just
dont ask me to fly in one in a war) led me to think about TL12 Meson
Screens fit for battleships.

Well, Ditzie and the ahhhh sophonts (and we are using this term *loosely*)
at FS started working on it (well, see, there is this arms race going on
between High Energy Soluuuutions and Legals ... we keep getting bigger
Meson Guns, and they keep getting bigger and better Meson Screens).

This is the result. They are designed for ships in the 10-99 kiloton range.

PV 500 Meson Screen : 16350 m3, 12010 t, 8000 m2 area, MCr 1601, Crew 50,
800 MW

This is designed to stop a 10 000 MJ meson gun (or a 100 gigajoule meson
gun at 3 and a bit times it's effective range).

The surface area required is roughly 1/3 of the surface area on a 25 000
displacement ton spherical battlecruiser. OTOH it only requires about 5% of
the total volume.

This is strongly implying that a 25 000 dt battlewagon is going to run out
of surface area real fast, but have lots of space left over.

To me, this implies a HePLAR propelled battlewagon could be the way to go
as HEPLAR is signifigantly cheaper, but requires lots of low-mass space for
the reaction mass.

Incidentally, a 64 m long, 8 m diameter particle accelerator is going to
have a maximum discharge energy of 4096 megajoules - enough for a damage
value of 320, implying an ability to crunch through 16 centimeters of
superdense. It will also have an effective range of 2.4 million kilometers
or so.

This is implying a paper-scissors-rock situations with battlewagons - the
speedy PAW armed ones will be able to keep away from the slow heavily armed
rocks, but not hurt them. The slow rocks will be unable to close, and bring
the speedy PAW types in range.

Of course, being more than one of slow and underarmoured means you die in
an ugly manner.
	
PV 1000 Meson Screen : 81 470 m3, 60 202t, 40 000 m2, 4000 MW, MCr 8010

This baby needs 210 crew, and stops a 40 000 megajoule meson gun dead, or a
100 000 megajoule meson gun at 1.5 times it's effective range.

The bad news is it requires 80% of the surface area of a 80 000
displacement ton ship, and about 8% of the displacement.

This is an insane investment, unless you *know* the enemy uses meson guns
smaller than this, and you have thicker armour than their best PAWs can
penetrate.

In that case, our hypothetical brick can take anything the enemy can throw
at it and still smile.

This is another potential strategic advantage of the Third Imperium - they
could build entire fleets dedicated to different tactical concepts, and
pick the one needed for the campaign as and when needed - if Enemy X likes
big PAW armed rocks, then bring bigger Meson-armed rocks. If enemy Y likes
skinny agile ships with long-range but weak meson guns, then take fast
ships with thick meson screens. And if enemy Z believe in small fighters
mounting det laser missiles, then take lots of nuke dampers, and so on.

The enemy, on the other hand, would not be able to optimise against a Third
Imperium standard fleet, because there isnt one.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 17:39:41 -0500
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@siscom.net>
Subject: Re: The Kessel run

edgar@beckett.rmaonline.net (Mr. Whipple) writes:

>In a Star Wars novel whose name I forget, the Kessel system and planet 
>could only be reached by threading a tortuous path among several
>highly dangerous, closely spaced stellar phenomena.  One could reduce
>transit time by navigating closer to the dangerous bodies, thus
>reducing the twistiness of one's path, but this made the task much
>more dangerous.
>
>I extrapolated from this basically what Richard Flores is thinking.
>The better your navigation is, the shorter would be your total
>distance travelled in visiting and leaving the planet. On the other
>hand, piloting and the fineness of your ship's tune would limit just
>how close a shave you can survive.

   A nice bit of handwaving to cover Lucas' mistake.  Logical, but it
still doesn't change the fact that the units were originally confused
though....

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 12:34:34 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: IG is not going under (ZZzzzz)

It was written....

>>Oh, is this the how many times delayed product that was supposed to be
>released
>>for (IIRC) GENCON, or was it ORIGINS? Then for "pre-christmas" and now at
>some
>>unspecified future date? I wouldn't take all these delays as *necessarily*
>>meaning that someone at IG wants to a good job this time -- after all, their
>>track record would not seem to wholeheartedly support such a proposition,
>would
>>it now? It it is at least possible that the delays are caused by lack of
>money
>>(or the staff and time that lack of money represents().
>>
>>No, there is no evidence to support this -- just like there's no evidence to
>>support the quaint idea that IG has suddenly got a clue from somewhere
>(probably
>>black market, if they have).
>
>Now, my brain doesn't always work as well as I'd like, but I beg to differ.  I
>could have sworn that Mr. Miller stated that the product has been delayed
>because he doesn't want to release it until its ready?  I'd rather have a late
>product that was done right then an on-time product that was rushed to get to
>the latest convention myself...

T4.1 is still being developed - people on the TML have seen the drafts a
few months ago - and I can remember Marc Miller stating that it will be
delayed until it is *right*.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 22:24:06 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Active sensors

shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:

>In mail you write:
>
>>>Why doesn't the Imperium insist that all commercial (ie non-military)
>>>vessels operate with Active Sensors lit up all the time. Anything that
>>>doesn't could then be assumed to be potentially hostile and intercepted or
>>>avoided..
>
>There's a major problem with this. There are a limited number of
>frequencies to operate the radars/lidars on. And if you are using the
>same frequency as another ship, or even one that is "close enough",
>*neither* of you will get anything but hash.
>
>It's sort of like going around at night with *powerful* flashlights.
>You can see ok using one. But if there's a bunch of folks using them,
>you'll spend a lot of time being blinded by someone else's flashlight.
>
>With *ranging* systems it gets worse. You can't tell if an echo is a
>return from a pulse sent out by *your* radar, or one sent out by
>someone else's[1]. Which means you don't know how long it's been
>travelling, and thus don't know the range.
>
>This will give you a lot of false targets on the screen.
>
>This sort of thing is why commercial aircraft use transponders rather
>than active radar.
>
>[1] well, actually, you *can* if you embed pulse codes in the pulse.
>But this *greatly* increases the cost of the gear. And even if civilian
>ships used such gear, they'd likely have limited numbers of pulse codes.

Thanks for clarifying that point.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 23:09:42 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: Active Sensors

Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com> wrote:

>SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com> wrote:
>> Not wishing to restart the flames on the piracy debate -
>> Why doesn't the Imperium insist that all commercial (ie non-military)
>> vessels operate with Active Sensors lit up all the time. Anything that
>> doesn't could then be assumed to be potentially hostile and intercepted or
>> avoided..
>
>Well, because it does (but not exactly).  That's what a transponder* is for.

Sure - I realise how the transponder works (but thanks for the explaination
anyway). The question popped into my head when driving home at night,
looking at the distance that I could see with my lights, and the distance
at which I could see other vehicles... I was wondering if there was any use
in a Traveller setting  for this.

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 17:08:13 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: The Kessel run

> From: Mr. Whipple <edgar@beckett.rmaonline.net>
>=20
> In a Star Wars novel whose name I forget, the Kessel system and planet=20
> could only be reached by threading a tortuous path among several
> highly dangerous, closely spaced stellar phenomena.  One could reduce
> transit time by navigating closer to the dangerous bodies, thus
> reducing the twistiness of one's path, but this made the task much
> more dangerous.
>=20
> I extrapolated from this basically what Richard Flores is thinking.
> The better your navigation is, the shorter would be your total
> distance travelled in visiting and leaving the planet. On the other
> hand, piloting and the fineness of your ship's tune would limit just
> how close a shave you can survive.

In light of this information, perhaps the boast was not just about Han
Solo, but also about his ship and it's compliment (the crew that is).  I've
never read the unnamed novel, but it makes better sense now than my
original supposition did.  Thanks Mr. Whipple.

=BA     =BA     =BA     =BA     =BA     =BA     =BA     =BA     =BA
=BA      I'll be Travelling now,	   =BA
=BA	                                   =BA
=BA      (s) Richard A. Flores       =BA
=BA			   =BA
=BA     =BA     =BA     =BA     =BA     =BA     =BA     =BA     =BA

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 17:31:36 -0600
From: Alex Rebsch <grazzit@flash.net>
Subject: Re: The Kessel run

At 12:38 PM 1/2/98 -0500, you wrote:
>"Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net> writes:
>
>> If the Kessel Run was a group of stops that had to be made in order to be
>> completed, then the question is one of Navigation.  It's like the classic
>> sales calls equation, only in 3 dimensions.  With endless combinations one
>> will be better than all the rest.  The shortest distance travelled would be
>> the best combination.  Maybe it wasn't a measure of time, but rather a
>> measure of distance (i.e.:  he worked out the best route to date).
>
>In a Star Wars novel whose name I forget, the Kessel system and planet 
>could only be reached by threading a tortuous path among several
>highly dangerous, closely spaced stellar phenomena.  One could reduce
>transit time by navigating closer to the dangerous bodies, thus
>reducing the twistiness of one's path, but this made the task much
>more dangerous.
>
>I extrapolated from this basically what Richard Flores is thinking.
>The better your navigation is, the shorter would be your total
>distance travelled in visiting and leaving the planet. On the other
>hand, piloting and the fineness of your ship's tune would limit just
>how close a shave you can survive.
>
>--
>Edgar Whipple       Have clue, will travel.
>ewhipple@rma.edu    "Budgies?! We doan need no stinkin *budgies*!!"
>
>        Microsoft is not where I want to go today.
> 

The Kessel run is based on a group of three massive black holes that orbit
each other. The term of running the kessel run in however many parsecs
meant how close to the event horizon of the black hole they could get. It
was not meant as a time reference. This was in the Jedi Academy trilogy.

Hope this clears up any confusion on this topic.

Alex

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 20:43:19 -0000
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: RE; Not Bob!

Actually, Bob knows a great deal about the PBM world & I'm sure he'll make
a fine job of the PBM. I't just that ever since he voted me 'person most
likely to keep writing bad articles' I've been tempted to take cheap shots
(Bob has seemingly made a career out of it! - read any 'Helium Jungle')

Traveller PBM WILL work. It's been missing from the list of 'must have'
PBMs for too long.

Oh, but why Bob? Y'see... now I have to be civil to him!

MJD.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 16:56:44 -0800
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: Re: GURPS Traveller

Thu, 01 Jan 1998 23:17:21 -0900, Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
> Well I think that the GURPS system already provides very clear
> definitions of Critical Success, Success, Failure, and Critical Failure.
> What it needs for greater usefullness is an explicit, codified system,
> more accurately describing the modifiers to skill roll required based on
> the difficulty of the task.

Well, what you are looking for is those modifiers described in
terms that Traveller fans are used to.  In my GURPS Traveller
article I used...

Easy          +3
Average        0
Difficult     -3
Formidible    -6
Staggering    -9
Impossible   -12

However, with hindsight I might make Staggering a -8
and Impossible a -10.
______________________________
summers@alum.mit.edu

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 16:29:23 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Coronation- done right.

At 09:04 PM 1/2/98 +0000, you wrote:

A couple of points.

1.  The weapons ranges on the Coronation are in 300,000km increments.

2.  I was attempting to reproduce the oft-mentioned 90kton Battleship.  I
feel I succeeded.

3.  FFS2 allows more detail from the design.  I included space for
armories, a medium security brig, several crew gymnasiums, drop capsule
facilities, mess halls, etc.  This takes up space but is more realistic.

When finished, I had about 200 *liters* of space left and a power overage a
few hundred Watts.  This design is tight.

- --

+-------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|    http://www.hooked.net/~dberry    | 
+-------------------------------------+
| "I created the universe; give ME    |
|  the gift certificate!!"            |
|        - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever |
+-------------------------------------+

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2196
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Saturday, January 3 1998     Volume 1997 : Number 2197



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Local Loss
Re: Cylons in TNE
Re: Local Loss
Re: Cylons in Traveller
Traveller board game auction
T4 Chrysanthemum DE
New site soon
Re: Chocoholics
Re: Traveller Anime
Re: Cylons in TNE
FIASCO
Citizen Points
Re: >*field mice*.
Re: Cylons in TNE ...This is long.
Re: What's in a name? (was:Re: GURPS Traveller)
Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2190
Project Longbow?
Preorder books still missing after three months...

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Jan 98 19:46:27 -0700
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@sk.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Local Loss

Just thought I'd share a little bad news.

A couple days ago, our largest FLGS burned to the ground. *sniff*

My mind reels at the vast selection of role-playing materials, boxed 
wargames, comics and cards -- some irreplaceable and out of print -- that 
have been lost.

I had been considering mentioning on this list that there were a few DGP 
products on the shelves (Flaming Eye, Starship Operators Manual). Now, I 
guess, the issue is moot.

I feel ashamed that my procrastination has allowed these treasures to be 
reduced to so much carbon and other combustive gasses.

My humble apologies...

With regret,
Glenn

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 12:27:12 +0800
From: "Benjamin Barton" <aramis3d@iinet.net.au>
Subject: Re: Cylons in TNE

While every one putting in there two cents worth, here my cent and half.

from Fantastic Films mag. April 1979.

Ship name : Galactica
Class: Battlestar   12 made ?
Deadweight tonnage, Metronic 273,000
Flank Speed: 10^7 M.P.D
Emergency Speed 10^12 M.P.D
"viper" attack fighter compliment: 36,  the Galatica had more because it
took on the survivors.
Shuttlecraft compliment: 8
Megatron Torpedo Arsenal: 10
Automatic twin laser turret cannons: 48
Length Overall: 3,280 d.m
Breath Overall: 1,752 d.m
Height Overall: 690 d.m

   In the first move the Galactica goes the lightspeed to excape the cyclon
trap that the rest of the fleet surcomes too..  Tyi said to Commander Adama
something like "It's been a while since we have gone to light speed".
  Later on Starbuck goes on to say "It's a beautifully sight to see a
battlestar moving out at lightspeed, unless its you home base."

I also have some technical drawing of the viper, cylon raiders, and the
Galatica.  I can scan these and send them to you, thay are only basic.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 23:45:39 -0500
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@topgun.cinecom.com>
Subject: Re: Local Loss

Glenn,

Well,  we ALL reduce to said gases and carbon...  Where was this game
store?  Sorry...

- - Bill



At 11:03 PM 1/2/98 EST, you wrote:
>Just thought I'd share a little bad news.
>
>A couple days ago, our largest FLGS burned to the ground. *sniff*
>
>My mind reels at the vast selection of role-playing materials, boxed 
>wargames, comics and cards -- some irreplaceable and out of print -- that 
>have been lost.
>
>I had been considering mentioning on this list that there were a few DGP 
>products on the shelves (Flaming Eye, Starship Operators Manual). Now, I 
>guess, the issue is moot.
>
>I feel ashamed that my procrastination has allowed these treasures to be 
>reduced to so much carbon and other combustive gasses.
>
>My humble apologies...
>
>With regret,
>Glenn
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 23:54:26 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: Re: Cylons in Traveller

If you're going to have Cylons in Traveller, remember that their rifles
are mostly for show.  Their targetting systems are such that they cannot
actually hit and mortally wound a human with their rifles, although they've
(on rare occasion) managed to graze or wound someone.

They do have large knives, which are deadly in close combat.

Their fighters have equipment which improves their targetting abitilty,
although most attacks result in near misses, grazes, or non-fatal hits,
they've been known to hit and destroy targets in ship-to-ship combat.

[As I understand it, the network censors refused to allow a robot to use a gun
 to shoot and kill a human being on TV (shoot and wound was OK, however). They 
 decided that having a robot use a knife to kill a human was OK, so all the 
 Cylons are equipped with knives to despatch humans with.  Go figure.]


                                        --- Derek Wildstar

wildstar@qrc.com -------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 0:42:39 CST
From: Don McKinney <dmckinne@cmi.csc.com>
Subject: Traveller board game auction

I'm auctioning off a 1980/1983 Mayday and a 1977 Imperium, starting
bid $3 each.  See details in rec.games.frp.marketplace or e-mail
me at dmckinne@prairienet.org.


DonM.
- --
=========================================================================
= Donald E. McKinney, Senior CM Specialist         dmckinne@cmi.csc.com =
= International Telecommunications Data Systems          (217) 239-8365 =
= 2109 Fox Drive, Champaign, IL                          (217) 351-8250 =
= Winter War XXV Convention Chairman, Champaign, IL, February 6-8, 1998 =
= dmckinne@prairienet.org or winterwar@prairienet.org    (217) 469-9917 = 
=========================================================================

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 00:42:00 -0600 (CST)
From: Joseph "Chepe" Lockett <jlockett@io.com>
Subject: T4 Chrysanthemum DE

For the list's perusal and comment, since I'm still learning FF&S (thanks
to Andy Akins for his splendid spreadsheet!) and since Doug Berry's showing
us his pre-IG-ification naval designs....

Anyone remember the Chrysanthemum-class destroyer escort from Classic
Traveller's Supplement 9, *Fighting Ships*?  I'd like to use one as the
base for a GURPS: Traveller game I'm starting soon, so I thought I'd see
what one looks like under T4's FF&S.

The hull shape is a compromise between the illustration and what I
calculate the dimensions ought to be (if the design passes muster I
promise deck plans online within a month or two).  I've changed the
particle accelerator turrets to parallel mounts in the interest of
effectiveness, and turned the dual fusion-gun turret into a triad of
laser barbettes (I had space and power to spare).  Now I think on it,
I probably ought to put in a nuclear damper instead, since _all_ space
combat missiles now seem to be det-lasers.

Does the following do the ship justice as well as make good design and
military sense?

(Apologies if this is badly-formatted relevant to THUDDD practice or
whatever: it's only loosely adapted from Andy's spreadsheet output).

INS Crocus, Chrysanthemum class Destroyer Escort (FF&S v2)					
Designed by Tim Brown (CT-S9) & Joseph L. Lockett (T4)

Statistics
   Tons: 1,000std (SL Short Rnd Cylinder Hypersonic)	Cargo: 0std (0/0)
   Volume: 14,000m3      Mass (L/C): 11,050t/10,337t	Cost: 3,730.528 MCr
   Dimensions: 42.8m x 21.2m x 21.2m     Size: 9	Tech Level: 15
   Maintenance Points: 374

Performance
   4       Jump (100std/pc fuel)		1.3/1.4 Contra-grav (238MW)
   5.1/5.4 Maneuver (/Thruster:1,400MW)		4,782kph/4,871kph Atmosphere
   6       Power (/Fus:3,000MW,1.0)		  (/Crus:3,587kph/3,653kph)

   421.4   Fuel (/Scoop:11 /Purif:48,4MW)	0/9/1/0/7 Accomodations 
   5       G-Comp				152 Life Sup. (/Ty:Ex,Gd /'St)

Electronics
   Controls: Holographic, High automation. 3xFibComp (CM:0.2 CP:5.0). Bridge
   Communications: 3xRadio (1,000AU, 0.20MW). 3xLaser (1,000AU, 0.00MW).
   Sensors: 1xPEMS (14.5 [160mkm], 0.50MW). 1xAEMS (12 [1.6mkm], 10.00MW).
	 1xLIDAR (15.5 [5mkm], 4.00MW).
   ECM: 1xRadio Jammer (500,000km, 0.33MW).
   Signatures: Vis:-1.0, IR:0.0 (-0.5 at 300MW), Act:0.0, Neu:-1, Grav:1

Weaponry & Defenses
   2xBeam Master Fire Directors (0MW 500,000km)	
   3xMissile Master Fire Directors (0MW 500,000km)
   3xLaser Barbette (+6) 1/4-4-4-4 [1,200/47-47-47-47] (LR)
   3xMissiles Can 1/1 ( /Mag:8) w/9 Command DetLaser1d6/2 6.0G12 1000AU
   2xParticle Accelerator (+0) 2/5-5-4-2 [1,200/115-115-68-34] (LR)	
   5 Sandcasters ( /AV:30 /Cans:3)
   10 [50] Armor
   23 Structure

Features
   10xAirlock
   1xElectronic Shop (6std ea.)		1xGym (2.5std ea.)
   1xMachine Shop (10std ea.)		1xOrdinary Galley (Cap:6)
   1xShip's locker (0.50std ea.)	1xFull Galley (Cap:19)

Small Craft					
   1xMinHgr (50std, 1 hatches)		 	 	

Backups					
   Sensors: 1xFld PEMS (14 [50mkm] Fld).

Crew Details					
   2xMnvr. 6xEngr. 8xGunn. 5xScrn. 3xCmnd.

From S9: "The *Chrysanthemum* class destroyer escort is a small, fast
vessel intended for fleet and squadron escort duties.  The design is old,
but efficient, with examples of the ship serving in the Imperial Navy for
over a century.  *Chrysanthemums* are ubiquitous, being encountered with
larger fleet elements as well as working alone.

	"This class of destroyer escort has been pressed into service in a
variety of non-escort duties, including orbital patrols, police
operations, garrison duties, and even limited strike missions."

- ----------------------------*------------------------*------------------------
 Joseph L. "Chepe" Lockett  |"Nullum magnum ingenium | GURPS fan, Amiga user,
http://www.io.com/~jlockett | sine mixtura dementiae | Shakespearean scholar,
  Email: jlockett@io.com    | fuit." -- Seneca       | actor and director.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 01:29:10 +0000
From: "Will" <panzer@mail.sisna.com>
Subject: New site soon

http://www.sisna.com/users/panzer/t4.htm

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 13:50:04 -0800
From: Richard Hough <rdhough@orca.bc.ca>
Subject: Re: Chocoholics

>>Now, what about Aslan, K'kree, and <snicker> Hivers?  What recreational
>>stimulants/depressants will they use?
>
>Hivers are pretty easy. They just cause a rebellion in a local empire every
>now and then when they feel like a buzz... =)

One of my players quipped that hiver kids' favorite toy is an ant colony...

- --
Richard Hough
rdhough@orca.bc.ca

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 23:34:43 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Traveller Anime

In mail, wildstar@qrc.com writes:

> shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:
>>Hey! I think Kei & Yuiri would be *great* in Traveller. As a threat to
>>the players if nothing else. :-)
>
> And the rest of the universe!  Any group of 'troubleshooters' that manage
> to destroy an entire planet as an accidental side-effect of rescuing a
> kidnapped child ...

But it's *never* their fault!

> Come to think of it, my PCs have ocassionally done stuff like this.

I was once called into a game some roomies were having with their
semi-munchkin friends. Seems they'd managed to blow up some ships that
used *lots* of the old "jump capacitors" as auxilary storage for
weapons and the like. 

They figured that the blast might get a few other ships. I got the info
about the ships and sat down with a calculator. My frst pass at a
solution required turning back to them and asking for the stats on the
*rest* of the fleets involved, as well as their positions.

My "best guess" for the fireball had them causing cratering and blast
effects on the planet. They were at geosynch altitude....

Since it had been a bit of "internal warfare" between some would-be
megacorps, I suggested to the ref (and he agreed!) that the Imperium
was looking for anyone connected with either side as "war criminals".
:-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 04:15:02 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Cylons in TNE

At 12:27 PM 1/3/98 +0800, you wrote:
>
>While every one putting in there two cents worth, here my cent and half.
>
>from Fantastic Films mag. April 1979.
>
>Ship name : Galactica
>Class: Battlestar   12 made ?
>Deadweight tonnage, Metronic 273,000
>Flank Speed: 10^7 M.P.D
>Emergency Speed 10^12 M.P.D
>"viper" attack fighter compliment: 36,  the Galatica had more because it
>took on the survivors.
>Shuttlecraft compliment: 8
>Megatron Torpedo Arsenal: 10
>Automatic twin laser turret cannons: 48
>Length Overall: 3,280 d.m
>Breath Overall: 1,752 d.m
>Height Overall: 690 d.m

What does "Metronic", "M.P.D", and "d.m" mean in this context?

Also, you realize that the emrgency speed is 100,000 times greater that
then flank speed?  That's some after burner!

- --

  Douglas E. Berry                              dberry@hooked.net
             http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/index.html
********************************************************************
Equation for finding the value of "chimp"                     .-"-.
                                                             /.-.-.\_
chimp=(a+x) + t6 (w+zm) - 4                                ( ( o o ) )
a is equal to the sum of the numbers in the current time     |/ " \|
(in military time) e.g. if the time is 17:22 then the value  \'---'/
of a=12, x is current temperature, t is # of turtles within  /`"""`\
one square mile (if any), w is size of wombat involved (in inches)
z is a reddish color, m is the ratio between your height relative
to the chimp in question.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 11:20:22 -0000
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: FIASCO

I'll be attending FIASCO in Leeds (England) in June, hopefully representing
BITS. 

FIASCO used to have a huge PBM section, but now it's mainly wargames.
However, I'll do what I can. If this information is of interest to anyone,
talk to me and we'll try to arrange something!

MJD.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 11:18:43 -0000
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Citizen Points

Now there's a cute idea. One for the hardcore nutters, the sort of people
who become Star Fleet Admirals in the Star Trek societies....

Earning CPs for publishing stuff? The pro-writer in me screams NONONO, I
want Cash! But the Traveller geek says 'hey what a great idea! I can be a
Duke!'

I say it makes great sense, although I think that writers should be paid
for larger works like the books themselves. But for small bits of books (or
in addition), or  for publishing in the resurrected JTAS - or support at
Cons and the like.... Yeah. Do it!

MJD.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 01:18:29 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: >*field mice*.

In mail you write:

>> Check out the old Roman sauce called "garum". It's fish based, and the
>> "standard" method involved letting the fish *ferment*. The "quick"
>> method is more acceptable to moderns.
>> 
>> And for that matter, check out the old "traditional" method of making
>> soy sauce.
>> 
>> > Of course, closer to home:  Haggis.  Tripe.  Spam.  "Olive loaf". 
> Kidneys.
>> > Cheese.
>> 
>> Beer, wine. A culture could consider these to be "rotten" grain/fruit
>> just as the Chinese consider cheese to be "rotten milk". 
>
> Do you know how to make "fish sauce" an common ingredient/topping in may
> oriental dishes?
> You need a board, a bowl, a nail and a fish.  Place the bowl in a corner
> where it will not be disturbed.  Place the fish on the board then nail it's
> tail down.  Place the board in the bowl with the mouth of the fish pointing
> down and lean the board up against the wall.  Come back when the fish is
> just skin and bones and bottle the fish sauce.

That's essentially how garum was made. And soy sauce was made by doing
something similar with a block of soy curd.

For that matter, beer was made by a not too diiferent method.

In *all* of these, the trick is in getting the *right* bacteria/yeast
to work on the raw material, and excluding others.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 23:17:20 +0800
From: "Benjamin Barton" <aramis3d@iinet.net.au>
Subject: Re: Cylons in TNE ...This is long.

http://www.kobol.com/index.html this one of many sites i found

>What does "Metronic", "M.P.D", and "d.m" mean in this context
?????? All i have is a print of a blueprint from a magazine.. ???
>
>Also, you realize that the emrgency speed is 100,000 times greater that
>then flank speed?  That's some after burner!

????? All i have is a print of a blueprint from a magazine.. ???
I don't know .... but what i have found out.

BASESTAR - Cylon, a slow moving, not easily maneuverable deep spacecraft.
They are believed to carry over 300 fighters, and have two long range
mega-ulsars and over 100 laser turrets.

BATTLESTAR - A deep spacecraft assembled in planetary orbit with a maximum
before fueling range of 500 light-yahrens.

Major Colonial Time Terms

millenium (1000 years)
1000 yahrens, or 1000 years. According to Adar's speech in the pilot
episode, the Galacticans were approaching the 7th millenium of time, which
would place their calendar in the late 6900's. There seems to be at least
two Colonial calendars, for the Cylon raid on Umbra occured in 7322, some 20
yahren before the events in "The Man with Nine Lives". The second figure
displaces the earlier figure by some 300 yahren or so.

yahren (year)
The yahren (yah'-rain) best represents the Colonial year, as both terms are
used interchangeably in the series. In one case year was substituted for
yahren in the dialog. In President Adar's statement in the pilot, he utters
"The first peace man has known in a thousand years.".Therefore the yahren is
the Colonial year. The plural can be represented as both yahren and yahrens.
Taken from the German word for year.

sectar (month?)
The sectar (sec'-tar), and its plural sectares (sec-tar'-ays), or sometimes
sectars , is used mostly in the context of space distance, much as micron
and centon are. In "Lost Planet of the Gods", Lucifer measured the distance
between the Galactica and Baltar's base ship in sectares. A hidden
assumption is that sectar is to secton what centar is to centon, a unit
composed of an unknown number of sectons. Using a base ten system, a sectar
could represent 10 sectons (or weeks). See micron for units that also double
as units of space distance.

secton (week)

The secton (sec'-tawn) best represents the Colonial week. In "The Man With
Nine Lives", Apollo complains to Starbuck about how he lost a secton's pay
to one of Starbuck's gambling schemes. A purely arbirary definition of
secton would be 100 centares, as 100 is the base for at least one other time
unit (centar). There are compelling reasons to adopt this definition, as
explained later in this document.

centar (hour)
The centar (sen'-tar) and its plural, centares (sen-tar'-ays), or sometimes
centars, is the Colonial hour. In "Baltar's Escape", Baltar gave Adama three
centares to give in to his demands. The centar is probably 100 centons, for
in "Take the Celestra", the Celestra's mutineering crew says that the
Galactica would be within its viewing range within a centar. The captain,
who does not want the ship to be seen, instructs the crew to hail the
Galactica within 80 centons. In "Take the Celestra", the crew were subjected
to 16 centares intervals of work, the Colonial equivalent of
double-shifting. There is an unknown time unit representing a 24 centar
interval. For example, in "The Lost Warrior", Adama gave Starbuck and Boomer
24 centares to rescue Apollo. This unknown interval is best understood as a
day, which constitutes 24 hours. Note, the Latin word for 100 is cent.

centon (minute)
In all but the first two episodes, centon (sen'-tawn) represents the
Colonial minute. Witness the use of the expression "wait a centon," the
Colonial version of "wait a minute." In "Gun on Ice Planet Zero", Starbuck
and Apollo's chronometers were synchronized to 80 centons, the length of
their mission to blow up the Ravishol Pulsar. For a discussion of the first
two episodes and the original centon, see the next section.

micron (second)
The micron is best understood as the Colonial second. A centon is 100
microns, for when Apollo's counter hits one centon in "Gun On Ice Planet
Zero", it starts counting down from 100 to 1. The micron is also used as a
term of space distance in the series. When Rigel tells the fleet that the
Cylon patrol craft are "three microns and closing," she is using micron in
the same way that we use the expression light year. A light year represents
the distant light travels within one year. Here micron represents the
distance covered in one micron within an unknown fixed velocity. No relation
to the Terran micron, or micrometer (one millionth of a meter.)

The First Two Episodes - Centon versus Senton
The discussion in this section covers units used almost exclusively in the
pilot and "Lost Planet of the Gods", including the possible original context
of centon. The time units used in these episodes seem to conform to a
different system than those used in other episodes. These include senton,
millisenton, and microsenton. The units here are more obviously metric than
those used outside these episodes. A different spelling for senton is used
here to distinguish it from the centon used throughout the rest of the
series.

senton (week)
While it is well known that centon substituted well for minute in the
series, the pilot episode provides compelling evidence that this was not
always the case. At the Council session dealing with Carillon, Apollo
informs the Council that Adama's plan would take the fleet sentons out of
the way from its intended destination (Carillon). Later, Sire Uri informs
the fleet that the voyage might resume within a senton. The senton may have
originally been intended to represent the original Colonial week,
represented by secton in most of the series. Although the senton-as-day
seems to work as well as the senton-as-week, the presence of two other time
units, microsentons and millisentons, and their respective metric
conventions, supports the latter view. It is suggested that the Colonials
redefined senton at one point to reflect "minute" (spelled as centon in this
document), and that senton represents a pre-Destruction use of the term. The
other two terms almost disappeared from the series.

millisenton (10 minutes)
This unit is used usually in the context of a few minutes. In "Lost Planet
of the Gods", Adama says that they have been dining for three millisentons.
Only one other episode uses this unit. In "The Living Legend", Sheba informs
the mission crew that they have only a few millisentons to get in and out of
Gamoray. Using the senton-as-week theory, the millisenton becomes 1/1000 of
a senton (or secton). Therefore, a millisenton constitutes 10 centons (or 10
minutes.) Adama's repast, therefore, becomes 30 minutes, a reasonable legnth
of time to eat. In the pilot, in the beginning of the Carillon sequences
Greenbeam informs Apollo that is landram is 24 millisentons from the Tylium
mine. That's 240 centons or 4 hours if a centon represents one minute.

microsenton (second)
Used by Starbuck in "Lost Planet of the Gods", in the context of one second.
This unit was later taken over by the unit by micron, which was used
exclusively in the first two episodes as a unit of space distance. In the
metric system, micro represents one millionth. Using the senton-as-week
rule, the microsenton becomes 1 millionth of a senton. If the senton (or
secton) represents exactly 1 Earth week, the microsenton (or micron) would
clock at 0.6 seconds.
Minor Colonial Time Units

quarton (week/fortnight/month)
In "The Magnificent Warriors", Adama complained that "I've been cooped up on
this ship for 16 quartons." Adama's last previous excursion off the ship was
in the episide "Lost Planet of the Gods". Possibly a week, fortnight (14
days) or a month. The time period between the two episodes would be a choice
between 4 and 16 months. A quarton equivalent to one secton (week) causes
the least problems. The quarton is derived from the Latin word for four.

A Sample Conversion Table
Based on the pseudo-metric used in the series, and a base 100 ratio, here is
a sample table for the four main Colonial units, using secton as exactly one
week. Note, the centon is almost exactly one minute, for there are 10,080
minutes within an Earth week, and 10,000 centons within a secton.
secton - 1 week
centar - 101 minutes (1.7 hours)
centon - 1 minute
micron - 0.6 seconds
This is an extremely attractive conversion table, and conforms to the hidden
assumptions for each of the four basic units. All tables present their own
set of problems. The double-shift on the Celestra consisting of 16 centares
is equivalent to almost 27 hours of non-stop work. We know from the episode
that 16 centares represents an extraordinary length of time for a work
shift. The Colonials may have a higher capacity for duration between sleep
cycles. With this in mind, the 27 hour shift becomes slightly more
palatable.


Battlestar  Colony  Date destroyed
Galatica  Caprica  not
Bellephon  Scorpia  6531
Argo  Sagittara  6549
Atlantia  Aries  6549
Columbia  Virgon  6549
Olympia  Taura  6547
Pegasus  Geinon  6551
Poseidon  Aquarius  6539
Prometheus  Libra  6538
Solaria  Leo  6549
Pacifica  Cancer  6549
Ricon  Pisces  6547

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 16:07:16 +0000
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com>
Subject: Re: What's in a name? (was:Re: GURPS Traveller)

Marc wrote:

>In a message dated 97-12-31 18:47:20 EST, you write:
>
><< Roleplaying guru and CS Lewis fan Andrew Rilstone used to edit a fanzine
> called Aslan, and was forever having to explain that no, it was *not* a
> Traveller 'zine...
>  >>
>
>Why was that?
>BTW, one of my favorite free traders was the "Dawn Treader." None of my
>players got it.

(Not a CS Lewis Link but relates to ship names)

Once, when we were playing a fantasy game we spent a session and a week
game time chasing after a ship called the 'Scarlet Herring" that we thought
had some cargo we were after on it. It was painful when the reality about
the name dawned...

Dom

- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com-------
"Omnia Mutantur Nihil Interit"  -  Sandman 'The Wake'
   "Everything Changes, but nothing is truly lost" 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 09:14:48 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1997 #2190

At 12:43 AM 1/2/98 -0500, you wrote:
>eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch) wrote:
>>>that'd be Strephon stepping out of the shower.
>>
>>Ok! Ok! So shoot me! ;->
>
>I'm sure Dulinor would be happy to oblige ...

One thing that's bothered me for years... Where In The Hell was Strephon's
IISS Protective Detail??  These guys are supposed to be within a few feet
of the Emperor's person at all times, and take bullets for him!  did
Dulinor get to them?  Were they withdrawn because the Emperor was actually
a clone?

Yes, I read alt.conspiracy.

- --
+---------------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net |
|        http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/       |
+---------------------------------------------+
| "Fixed fortifications are monuments to the  |
|  stupidity of man."  -Gen. George S. Patton |
+---------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 15:28:59 -0500
From: Robin Cantin <rcantin@oricom.ca>
Subject: Project Longbow?

OK, I'm new to the list (hi everyone) and I have a few questions from my
reading of the Survival Margin supplement for CT. They've probably been
discussed here before, but since they're not in the "discussed to death"
section of the FAQ, I'll risk it.

What the Hell is Project Longbow?
Yes I know, it's a long-range communication project that was abandoned. Yet
obviously Strephon uses it to contact... "an empress"?!?
And who are Pentecost and the others? What's that thing who's coming? Any
information in the supplements I didn't buy?

Thanks for ANY information.

Robin

Remember that when you point at someone, three of your fingers are pointing
back at you.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 14:48:56 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Preorder books still missing after three months...

If I don't hear from Imperium Games on Monday I'm contacting VISA to see
about getting all credit card charges from IG reversed, and also the
California Department of Consumer Affairs to see what my other options
are.  Concerned IG staff can leave messages at 905-770-4016 if they don't
trust the Internet.


To briefly refresh IG's corporate memory about what happened:

You charged me for a book in October, and another in November.  I
contacted you to inquire why the books hadn't arrived, and Anne promised
to have them shipped.  Still nothing.  From price and timing, I presume
that the two books were Naval Architect's Manual and Imperial Squadrons. 
Since then Annalek Run has also been released (saw it in a games shop), so
I assume that I was charged for that in December.


What I want:

My money back, or the books, as well as a good explanation as to how this
happened AGAIN (Imperium Games has charged me for unshipped goods before,
once under each management) and a good reason for not persuing a complaint
with the California Department of Consumer Affairs and with VISA.

A sincere apology would also be appropriate, given the circumstances.


Robert Prior



PS. Note to fans of Infini-V and Metator: I will not release any upgrades
of these programs (and the long-awaited PC versions) until I get a sincere
apology from Imperium Games.  (I will judge sincerity based on both words
and actions.)  If this makes a difference to you, I suggest that you
contact Imperium Games and encourage them to do the decent thing.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2197
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest     Saturday, January 3 1998     Volume 1997 : Number 2198



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Ship design systems
Re: FIASCO
IS and PE?
Re: Citizen Points
Re: FIASCO
Re: Citizen Points
Re: Cylons in TNE
Re: Traveller Anime
TL10 Space Mine
Re: Project Longbow?
Metrics aren't Intuitive?  (long)
Re: >*field mice*.
Re: Citizen Points
Re: Citizen Points
Re: Cylons in TNE
Opinions, please?
Empress Wave/Project Longbow

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 14:23:38 -0500
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.on.ca (Rob Prior)
Subject: Re: Ship design systems

Marc writes:
>I agree that we need BOTH a form to be filled out and to record the design
>process, AND a ship card which is sufficient for the resolution of combat.

- -----

So the cards are intended to be a kind of "supercounter" for combat?  I
can live with that, as long as I get the rest of the data as well.  

That makes something like Emperor's vehicles a bit more comprehensible -
although it _still_ needed to provide the basic design data.  I've heard
that Imperial Squadrons has the same flaw - cards witout details - but as
IG still hasn't shipped mine I don't know for certain.  

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Jan 98 21:48 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: FIASCO

In-Reply-To: <199801031223.MAA30076@sand.global.net.uk>

MJ,

> I'll be attending FIASCO in Leeds (England) in June, hopefully representing
> BITS. 
>  
> FIASCO used to have a huge PBM section, but now it's mainly wargames.
> However, I'll do what I can. If this information is of interest to anyone,
> talk to me and we'll try to arrange something!

All being well I'll be there (and probably Recon and Sabre too).
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 15:48:28 +0000
From: twolf@unix.tfs.net
Subject: IS and PE?

In calculating maintenance cost for the squadrons in IS, does the 
attack and defense values (etc)  equate to the same thing for 
calculating maintenance as the attack and defense factors do in PE?  
IE. 3 RU per factor for active and 1 RU for mothballed?

JD
Twolf

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Jan 98 21:48 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Citizen Points

In-Reply-To: <199801031223.MAA30069@sand.global.net.uk>

MJ,

> Now there's a cute idea. One for the hardcore nutters, the sort of people
> who become Star Fleet Admirals in the Star Trek societies....
>  
> Earning CPs for publishing stuff? The pro-writer in me screams NONONO, I
> want Cash! But the Traveller geek says 'hey what a great idea! I can be a
> Duke!'
>  
> I say it makes great sense, although I think that writers should be paid
> for larger works like the books themselves. But for small bits of books (or
> in addition), or  for publishing in the resurrected JTAS - or support at
> Cons and the like.... Yeah. Do it!

Sorry, I didn't make myself very clear - the writer should be allowed to 
choose how he is paid: cash, or CPs, but at a better rate than if they'd 
bought them. eg if CP cost $15 each, and a writer is owed $30, he could take 
the money or *3* CP (ie at $10 each).
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Jan 98 21:48 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: FIASCO

In-Reply-To: <199801031223.MAA30076@sand.global.net.uk>

MJ,

> I'll be attending FIASCO in Leeds (England) in June, hopefully representing
> BITS. 
>  
> FIASCO used to have a huge PBM section, but now it's mainly wargames.
> However, I'll do what I can. If this information is of interest to anyone,
> talk to me and we'll try to arrange something!

All being well I'll be there (and probably Recon and Sabre too).
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Jan 98 21:48 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Citizen Points

In-Reply-To: <199801031223.MAA30069@sand.global.net.uk>

MJ,

> Now there's a cute idea. One for the hardcore nutters, the sort of people
> who become Star Fleet Admirals in the Star Trek societies....
>  
> Earning CPs for publishing stuff? The pro-writer in me screams NONONO, I
> want Cash! But the Traveller geek says 'hey what a great idea! I can be a
> Duke!'
>  
> I say it makes great sense, although I think that writers should be paid
> for larger works like the books themselves. But for small bits of books (or
> in addition), or  for publishing in the resurrected JTAS - or support at
> Cons and the like.... Yeah. Do it!

Sorry, I didn't make myself very clear - the writer should be allowed to 
choose how he is paid: cash, or CPs, but at a better rate than if they'd 
bought them. eg if CP cost $15 each, and a writer is owed $30, he could take 
the money or *3* CP (ie at $10 each).
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Jan 98 21:48 GMT0
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
Subject: Re: Cylons in TNE

In-Reply-To: <980101.054428.8T5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com>

Leonard,

> >> The ship's though are rougher, they're non-jump capable I'd say, but
> >> Battlestar Galactica was always pretty vague about the ship specs, and
> >> distances traveled.
> >
> > Everything was very small (the standard unit of distance was the 
> > micron...)
>  
> No, that was a unit of *time* (as in "Wait a micron...").

I tracked down the writers' guide on the net (sorry, lost the URL, but it's 
easy to find). It says:


TIMES

Centon - (sentonn) - equivalent of a minute

Micron - a tenth of a centon


So it seems you're right - rather than using a unit of length incorrectly, 
they're using it as a unit of time!

However, in the introduction it says:


You'll also find that some of the definitions of terms here contradict the 
context the terms were used in and some spellings that defy the 
pronunciations uttered on the show. 

The bottom line is, it is what it is. Enjoy. 


....so maybe we're both right.

Some other gems:


CONSUMABLES - Cylon word for food

CRAWLON - Spider [I just love that one!]

DI-ETHANE - Type of blizzardy storm

FUMARELLO - Cigar

PLUTON - Poisonous substance generated from fallout of neutron elements 
which contaminates food

For Sagan's sake - For God's sake

TUCANAS - Feline, three-dimensional creatures - singers on Carillon [as 
opposed to most of the characters, who barely had 1 dimension...]

Parsec (parseck) - 90 million miles (distance between sun & Earth)

Hectare (hecktarr) - nine million miles


I take back everything I said - this is wonderful!
______________________________________________________________________
Andrew M J Boulton                        http://www.cix.co.uk/~fubar/
 "Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste"

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 18:38:00 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Anime

- -----Original Message-----
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>


>shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:
>>Hey! I think Kei & Yuiri would be *great* in Traveller. As a threat to
>>the players if nothing else. :-)
>
>And the rest of the universe!  Any group of 'troubleshooters' that manage
>to destroy an enti
re planet as an accidental side-effect of rescuing a
>kidnapped child ...
>
>Come to think of it, my PCs have ocassionally done stuff like this.
>
>
>                                        --- Derek Wildstar
>
>wildstar@qrc.com -------------------------------------------------------

>

Sounds like the usual Saturday night game session in my neck of the woods.
In fact it could be considered a tame evenings entertainment!  ;^)

Mike Peters
Letterworks@Comten.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 09:53:07
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: TL10 Space Mine

Thinking about the Piracy debate and the recent THUDDD lo-tech SDB
competition, I sat down and designed a TL10 space mine.

Essentially, it is a TL10 det laser missile that can pull 5 gees for one
hour that has it's own PEMS and computer system, as well as a long-range
communicator.

At about MCr3, they are reasonably cheap, as military systems go, and are
designed to be "seeded" at strategic points in the system.

The theory is that you seed the area with both real mines and fake ones.
Sneaky commodores will have some of them painted with military black, and
some with bare metal skins, so an intruder will be more uncertain as to the
number of potential threats. 

Whilst not a threat to a serious military force, they should dissuade light
raiding forces from annoying strategic points in the system.

Cheaper systems leave out the PEMS and flight computer, and are flown as
command controlled mines. They cost MCr 1.42 apiece.

Exceptioanlly cheap systems leave out everything bar engine and batteries,
and have a much cheaper 300 000km laser communicator. They cost KCr 103 in
total, and are essentially decoys.

Just the sphere of crystaliron costs KCr 9.5.

More technically advanced mines would include the abomination known as
fusion plus as a power source, which would radically reduce the weight of
the battery suite, and thus increase the performance of the missile. The
demand for surface area of TAKAFP may make a more needle like shape more
efficient, as the increased armour needed for the surface area would be
compensated for by the greater weight efficiency of TAKAFP versus batteries.

*********************************************************************

18 m3 sphere, 3.25 m diameter, 3 cm Crystaliron hull (AV 34)
   0.95 m3, 9.5 t, KCr 9.5

2000 kN HEPLAR engine
   1 m3, 1t, KCr 10

2.5 m3 Heplare reaction mass
   2.5 m3, 0.35t

10 MW/1 hour battery
   12.5 m3, 25t, KCr 37.5

200 kt/15 kkm Det Laser (DV 94)
   0.36 m3, 3.6t, KCr 1100

0.6fib CM Flight Computer
    0.175 m3, 0.07t, KCr 629

6.5 rated PEMS
   0.4 m3, 0.2 m2, 0.4t, KCr 1000

1000 AU Laser Communicator
   0.07 m3, 1 m2, 0.07 t, KCr 180

Total mass : 39.99 tons

Total cost : MCr 3.07

It has a basic signature of -1.5, and an emitted signature of either -1.5
or 0, depending on whether or not the HEPLAR engine is being powered.
Personally, I think a HEPLAR engine in use would stand out to passive
sensors like dogs balls.

Getting the crystaliron sphere painted with military black at a TL11
factory would cost MCr 33.2 or so, so I dont think it's worth it.

FWIW a sensitivity 7.5 sensor should detect it at about 500 000km. A
sensitivity 6.5 sensor may have to get to within 50 000km.

Note that these mines are both bigger than "standard" space combat missiles
and spherical. Therefore any use of them in a spaceship will require a
custom launcher.

Ian Whitchurch

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 16:08:48 -0800
From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Project Longbow?

>What the Hell is Project Longbow?
>Yes I know, it's a long-range communication project that was abandoned. Yet
>obviously Strephon uses it to contact... "an empress"?!?
>And who are Pentecost and the others? What's that thing who's coming? Any
>information in the supplements I didn't buy?

It's covered in "The Regency Sourcebook - Keepers of the Flame" one of the
last books GDW did.  Unfortunatly I don't remember a lot about it.  The
empress is "The Emperess Wave", I don't really remember what that is,
something about a psychic wave covering hundreds of lightyears, eminating
from the core and headed towards the Imperium.  It had apparently caused
the Zhodani coreward expeditions some serious trouble!

				Zane




| Zane H. Healy                    | UNIX Systems Adminstrator  |
| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary)  | Linux Enthusiast           |
| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate)  | Classic Computer Collector |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------+
| For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing,    |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/                       |
| For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them.    |
| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html            |

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 18:08:05 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Metrics aren't Intuitive?  (long)

From: Zane H. Healy <healyzh@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Saturday, January 03, 1998 2:01 PM


>>> Does a pound of silver weigh the same
>>> as a pound of iron?

>>You're joking?

No, I wasn't joking.

>>And which falls to the earth faster?

Essentially they will fall at the same rate; however, 
if you're splitting hairs, the pound of silver will hit 
the ground first (even though it weighs less).

>>A *pound* of iron weighs one pound, as does
>> a *pound* of feathers.  That's about as old as
>> methuselah!

You'll get no arguments with me there.  Iron and 
feathers are both common substances.

The subject under discussion when the question 
was posed was one of Measures and Standards.  
The key word here is Standards.  There is a 
different standard for precious metals (like silver) 
than there is for common substances (like iron 
and feathers).  So, the two questions about 
comparable weights are fundamentally different.

In the English (or Imperial) Standards, there are 
three sub-groupings  of Weight and mass.  They 
are the Avoirdupois, Apothecaries' and Troy.

The first is the one used when measuring common 
substances (like iron and feathers).  It is probably 
the one most people think of when they hear terms 
like pounds and ounces.  The second is used when 
referring to the things you might find in an 
apothecary shop (chemist's, drug store or 
pharmacy, depending upon your society).  The final 
one is used when referring to precious metals (like 
silver).  There is also another group that Americans 
do not use.  I don't know about the Australians or 
Canadians (who I understand have pretty much 
completely gone metric).  They are refereed (at 
least in the US) as "Special British Units".

These three systems have 3 unit names in common, 
the grain, the ounce and the pound.  Only the first of 
these is the same in all three.  A grain (abbreviated 
gr.) weighs c. 64.8 milligrams and is the unit that 
makes them one system.

Here is a run down on the three systems...
====================================
Avoirdupois
1 dram (dr.)                   =              27.34375 gr.
1 ounce (oz.)                 =     16 dr.  = 437.5 gr.
1 pound (lb.)                  =     16 oz. =      7 k gr.
1 hundredweight (cwt.) =   100 lb.  =  700 k gr.
1 short ton (s.t.)             = 2000 lb.  =   14 M gr.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
Special British Units (a subset of Avoirdupois)
1 stone (st.)          =            14 lb. =         98 k gr.
1 hundredweight (cwt.) = 112 lb. =       784 k gr.
1 long ton (l.t.)      =        2,240 lb. = 15,680 k gr.
====================================
Apothecaries
1 scruple (s. ap.) =                            20 gr.
1 dram (dr. ap.)   =    4 s. ap. =        80 gr.
1 ounce (oz. ap.) =    8 dr. ap. =    640 gr.
1 pound (lb. ap.)  = 12 oz. ap. = 7,680 gr.
====================================
Troy
1 pennyweight (dwt.) =                        24 gr.
1 ounce (oz. t.)           = 20 dwt. =     480 gr.
1 pound (lb. t.)            = 12 oz.   = 5,760 gr.
====================================

Length and distance has 4 standards (Customary, 
Nautical, Surveyor's (or Gunters') chain and 
Engineers' chain), which I will not detail.   And the 
ones for Volume and Capacity are even worse with 
6 different standards and distinctions are made 
between liquid and dry units.

I know this distinction has gotten rather long and I 
apologize, but, I did warn you and there is a 
Traveller link.

If you want to have a little fun with your players along 
the lines of "The Scarlet Herring*," then you can 
include a planet where the Standards and 
Measures are English (not Imperial, that might be 
confusing) and the Tourist's Guide says, "A local 
pound is half a standard kilogram)

You could have a local offer to sell your intrepid 
adventurers a thousand pounds of gold, silver, 
platinum, osmium, etc. at 5 to 10% below standard 
costs.  Imagine their surprise when they learn that 
what they are getting is only 75% of what they 
thought it was.  

*Which in my campaign was called "The Russet 
Clupeid."  For months after it's inclusion, the 
players were looking up obscure names to find 
new clues.  When they quit looking up every 
name, I included the "The Phaux Clew."

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 19:11:52 -0500
From: "Michael D. Peters" <Letterworks@Comten.com>
Subject: Re: >*field mice*.

- -----Original Message-----
From: Kenji Schwarz <kenji@accessone.com>


>Leonard Erickson, the TravPerv Elect, wrote:
>
>>I prefer to work it in reverse...
>>
>>The first item inspires me to consider a culture where the "sauce" for
>>certain items is provided at the table by specially trained
>>men/women... :-)
>>
>>"You want me to eat that carrot after she did *that* with it?!"
>>
>>A dirty mind is a joy forever. :-)
>
>Much more of this and I'm going to wind up looking like TML Moral Majority
>representative...
>
>
>Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com

But Kenji, I've always considered you to be the prime example of the
Morality of the List!

Mike Peters
Letterworks@Comten.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 19:53:21 -0500
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@topgun.cinecom.com>
Subject: Re: Citizen Points

At 08:42 AM 1/3/98 EST, MJD wrote:
<Snip>...
>I say it makes great sense, although I think that writers should be paid
>for larger works like the books themselves. But for small bits of books (or
>in addition), or  for publishing in the resurrected JTAS - or support at
>Cons and the like.... Yeah. Do it!
>

Actually, why could the writers both be published AND get CPs?  IG still
benefits because talented (and meglamaniacal (sp?), at least as far as T4
goes!) authors will produce more material for IG to publish than they might
otherwise do.  We untalented wannabes could still *purchase* our titles in
the time-honored fashion, but the movers and shakers in T4 would get titles
as an added bonus for their hard work, WITHOUT with-holding their money...

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 18:52:42 -0600
From: "Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Citizen Points

> From: Andrew Boulton   Dated: Saturday, January 03, 1998 6:04 PM

>> Now there's a cute idea. One for the hardcore nutters, the
>> sort of people who become Star Fleet Admirals in the
>> Star Trek societies....
>>
>> Earning CPs for publishing stuff? The pro-writer in me
>> screams NONONO, I want Cash! But the Traveller geek
>> says 'hey what a great idea! I can be a Duke!'
>>
>> I say it makes great sense, although I think that writers
>> should be paid for larger works like the books
>> themselves. But for small bits of books (or in addition),
>> or  for publishing in the resurrected JTAS - or support at
>> Cons and the like.... Yeah. Do it!
>
>Sorry, I didn't make myself very clear - the writer should be
> allowed to choose how he is paid: cash, or CPs, but at a
> better rate than if they'd bought them. eg if CP cost $15
> each, and a writer is owed $30, he could take the money
> or *3* CP (ie at $10 each).


I started to ask you why you thought that a writer should get a better break
than anyone else?  But, I guess that all of us would benefit from the
writing, so perhaps this suggestion is not out of order.  I guess I am
exhibiting my herd tendencies.

I detected a political tirade coming on here, so I quit.

Marc or whoever is handling such matters, might also want to consider
offering other premiums.  Like on design contests.

And why not mix and match.  If you had $30.00 coming for an article written,
why not take $10.00 and 2 CP or $20.00 and a CP.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 17:01:33 -0800
From: J-Man <j-man@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Cylons in TNE

You forgot some..

Like Lupis is a wolf.

Daggit is a dog.

Primaries is colonial for food.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 01:18:43 -0000
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: Opinions, please?

This may be a misuse of the list, but I'm trying to decide on a book
synopsis/blurb. Comments are invited upon the following:

For The Greater Good: A Fantasy Novel by MJ Dougherty

..................
Four thousand years ago, human civilisation reached its peak. Thaumaturgy
dominated the world, power's key and its tool. Then the mages fought among
themselves for supremacy.

Continents were shattered. Nations obliterated. Nature warped to serve
warfare's ends. 
Humanity tottered on the brink of extinction. The climb back was long and
hard, but finally science has replaced magic. With the steam engine and
gunpowder has come new opportunity for the comman man. No more do mages
rule the shivering hordes. The days of Empire are a long-ago nightmare. 

But now the nations are marching.

A conspiracy of Thaumaturges seeks to recreate the old Empire. Their tool
is the powerful nation of Vildor. Only weak Torgin and her estranged allies
remain free. If Torgin falls, the Empire will come anew. 

And all humanity will be slaves forever.

As her armies are driven steadily back, all Torgin's hope turns to Jervon
Dessartes, a disgraced cavalry officer. Dessartes was once a hero, but
there has been no place for heroes in Torgin for many years. Brought from
exile, Dessartes is offered a chance to redeem himself. His mission is
simple, and impossible:

Enter the blasted wildlands and retrieve a weapon from the Empire War. 
Destroy the invaders before Torgin falls. 

Or die trying.

Dessartes faces the terrors of the Empire War, opposition from within his
own government, and the possibility of a traitor among his companions. His
own loyalties are divided.

Yet the fate of a nation rests in his unwilling hands.

.........

Sorry about the off-list posting, but I need the feedback.
MJD.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 20:42:01 -0500 (EST)
From: Larry Hadley <lhadley@peterboro.net>
Subject: Empress Wave/Project Longbow

On Sat, 3 Jan 1998, Traveller-digest wrote:
> Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 15:28:59 -0500
> From: Robin Cantin <rcantin@oricom.ca>
> Subject: Project Longbow?
> 
> What the Hell is Project Longbow?
> Yes I know, it's a long-range communication project that was abandoned. Yet
> obviously Strephon uses it to contact... "an empress"?!?
 
   Without reading my supplements, I'll try and give you the gist.

   Project Longbow (LONG Baseline Observation Window) uses aperture
synthesis to create a virtual antenna literally light-years across.
(Aperture synthesis is a method of using multiple smaller antennae to
simulate the existance of one much larger antenna. Resolution of the
antenna is equal to an actual antenna of the intended size, but offers
much lower total sensitivity)

    The system (the largest of it's kind) was created by the Imperium in
the 800's, intended for long-range observation of the galactic core (and
the Zhodani) All references to the project were classified DEEP SECRET
throughout it's entire existance. Even though observations were not made
in Real Time (because of the lightspeed lag) large amounts of useful data
were collected on Zhodani shipping patterns and the core expeditions.

   Beyond a range of 1500 parsecs, whose radiation had been travelling for
4900+ years, the Zhodani had not yet arrived in the observational window.

   The Longbow collector plane was located in the Depot/Lishun (1219
Lishun) system as part of the large Navy facility there, aiding it's
concealment. The collector plane was a disk of BILLIONS of linked receiver
elements 46 *billion* kilometers in diameter, the size of the 12th orbital
disk. This collector yielded a resolution at 1500 parsecs of 10 _meters_
in long-wavelength IR, and _one_half_meter_ in visible wavelengths!

    Longbow II, a more ambitious project learning from Longbow, was
started by Strephon in 1103. This project would use the ENTIRE WIDTH of
the Imperium as it's baseline! With sensor loci placed everywhere in the
Spinward Marches and Antares sectors, in resolution (but not sensitivity)
Longbow II replicated a sensor dish of 160 _parsecs_ in diameter,
sensitive in all electromagnetic bands from X-ray all the way through
visible wavelengths and IR down to long-wavelength radio. Longbow II would
be able to achieve a theoretical resolution of 0.05 _centimeters_ at a
range of 8000 parsecs! (the distance to the galactic core)

   One difference between Longbow I and II, however, was that though
Longbow I had it's resolution in both the vertical and horizontal planes,
Longbow II only had it's spectacular resolution available in the
horizontal, spread along the galactic plane as it was. 

   Longbow II data was to have been collected at all listening points
along the bowline, and carried by Jump-6 "Imperiallines" couriers to the
"focal point" at Depot/Lishun where the data would have been synchronized
(using such phenomena as pulsars in the common field of view), compiled,
filtered, and computer enhanced. 

    However, the calibration of such a huge array was expected to take
decades, if not longer, before any _meaningful_ observations could be
made. The Civil War intervened, destroying the Project. All Longbow II
data is believed to be lost.

    Note that the data above is "common knowledge", I'll leave the
cloak&dagger stuff for a spoiler...

Teasers: Psionic phenomena propogating across lightyears (the Empress Wave)
         Space combat along the core axis, propogating towards the Zhodani
         The Empress Wave will arrive at the Imperial border in 1205
         Longbow II data was enroute to Usdiki, from Depot/Lishun, MIA

> And who are Pentecost and the others? What's that thing who's coming? Any
> information in the supplements I didn't buy?

    What you're looking for is probably in TNE, The Regency Sourcebook I
think.

- -- DLH                                 lhadley@peterboro.net

homepage: http://text.peterboro.net/~lhadley/index.html
bio: http://text.peterboro.net/~lhadley/Profile.html

  "Fight to fly, fly to fight, fight to win." - TOPGUN motto.

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2198
***********************************

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Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
Traveller-digest      Sunday, January 4 1998      Volume 1997 : Number 2199



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Longbow
Re: Project Longbow?
Re: Traveller Anime
the Assassination
Re: Cylons in Traveller
Traveller on Yahoo (was Traveller promotion ideas)
Re: Traveller Anime
Re: >*field mice*.
IISS Protective Detail
Re: Project Longbow?
Re: Cylons in Traveller
Re: Metrics aren't Intuitive?  
TL9 PAW
(Fwd) Barbie's Starship

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 21:05:36 EST
From: TravelrTNE <TravelrTNE@aol.com>
Subject: Longbow

>Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 15:28:59 -0500
>From: Robin Cantin <rcantin@oricom.ca>
>Subject: Project Longbow?
>
>OK, I'm new to the list (hi everyone) and I have a few questions from my
>reading of the Survival Margin supplement for CT. They've probably been
>discussed here before, but since they're not in the "discussed to death"
>section of the FAQ, I'll risk it.
>
>What the Hell is Project Longbow?

   What you want is the Regency Sourcebook (Out of print).  It's a TNE
product. As far as I know, they only have basis in TNE so far.  To summarize
from the players section:  
    LONG Baseline Observation Window was created in the 800s for observation
of the Galactic Core and the Zhodani Core Expeditions.  It uses apeture
synthesis (pg 50 of the Original Fire, Fusion, and Steel).  Strephon was here,
observing the Empress Wave, when Dulinor assasinated his double.

>Yes I know, it's a long-range communication project that was abandoned. Yet
>obviously Strephon uses it to contact... "an empress"?!?
This "long range communication project" was only a cover story (and it only
appears in Survival Margin).  It was more accurately a super large sensor
designed to study the Zhodani Core Expeditions.  In other words, to spy.

>And who are Pentecost and the others? What's that thing who's coming? Any
>information in the supplements I didn't buy?

Apparently a code name for a personal Agent of the Emperor.  Most of the
Longbow staff were psionic, so i'm assuming "Pentecost" is like Strephon's
Right Hand Sophont (at least in regards to Longbow, maybe more).

>
>Thanks for ANY information.

No prob.

>
>Robin

Gary

P.S.  Btw, the Empress Wave the other Mysteries of Traveller: The New Era are
discussed sometimes on the TNE RCES list (sub info available on request) and
some possible solutions presented on Chris Griffens excellent Domain of Deneb
Web Pages...  at
http://www.best.com/~cgriffen/traveller/campaign/conspiracy.html
         

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 17:59:09 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: Re: Project Longbow?

At 03:28 PM 1/3/98 -0500, you wrote:
>OK, I'm new to the list (hi everyone) and I have a few questions from my
>reading of the Survival Margin supplement for CT. They've probably been
>discussed here before, but since they're not in the "discussed to death"
>section of the FAQ, I'll risk it.
>
>What the Hell is Project Longbow?

Longbow was a sensor array the stretched across the width of the Imperium.
By using careful measurements from the Longbow sites to cooridnate the
observations, the Imperium had a synthetic aperture several hundred parsecs
across.

>Yes I know, it's a long-range communication project that was abandoned. Yet
>obviously Strephon uses it to contact... "an empress"?!?
>And who are Pentecost and the others? What's that thing who's coming? Any
>information in the supplements I didn't buy?

The Empress Wave is a psionic (in part) event advancing from the core of
the galaxy at lightspeed.  Humans with psionic abilities who are exposed to
the wavefront experience a vision of a woman described as "regal" holding a
staff of some sort, surveying a clityscape.  All observers describe the
scene as "pregnant" or "something just about to happen."

The wave is evidently responsible for the collapse of the remarkably stabel
Zhodani Consulate.  By the time of the Regency, Zhodani refugees are
beginning to flood across the border, bringing tales of warfare and madness.

That's all that's given in offcial documents.  I read a "what-if" warp up
story on someone's web page.  Can't remember where at the moment.

+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
| Douglas E. Berry  dberry@hooked.net |
|   http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/    |
|-------------------------------------|
| "It is not the big armies that win  |
|  battles, it is the good ones"      |
|             -Maurice de Saxe        |
+~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 22:09:57 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller Anime

At 11:34 PM 1/2/98 PST, Leonard Erickson wrote:
>>Any group of 'troubleshooters' that manage to destroy an entire planet 
>>as an accidental side-effect of rescuing a kidnapped child ...
>
>But it's *never* their fault!

Of _course_ not!  As they pointed out after the caper where they shut
down that errant computer, they'd hardly have _deliberately_ destroyed their 
own apartment building ...

Here's a frightening thought: assign Nuku-Nuku and Eimi as a backup team
for Kei and Yuri (I just finished watching all three volumes of _All-Purpose
Cultural Cat-Girl Nuku-Nuku_; the first was definitely the best - throwing
a telephone pole through a gunship is an imaginative way of disabling it,
particularly with the comment 'I am _not_ a war machine!_.)

>My "best guess" for the fireball had them causing cratering and blast
>effects on the planet. They were at geosynch altitude....

Holy Hegnebar, Batman!  That's a Familie Spofulam sized blast!  ;-)

>Since it had been a bit of "internal warfare" between some would-be
>megacorps, I suggested to the ref (and he agreed!) that the Imperium
>was looking for anyone connected with either side as "war criminals".

And to think that _I_ came down hard on a group of players for detonating
a nuke in a Class-C starport (at least it gave me an excuse to run Prison
Planet next).


                                        --- Derek Wildstar

wildstar@qrc.com -------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 22:43:00 EST
From: TravelrTNE <TravelrTNE@aol.com>
Subject: the Assassination

>One thing that's bothered me for years... Where In The Hell was Strephon's
>IISS Protective Detail??  These guys are supposed to be within a few feet
>of the Emperor's person at all times, and take bullets for him!  did
>Dulinor get to them?  Were they withdrawn because the Emperor was actually
>a clone?

     Well the Rebellion Sourcebook says that the Illelish Guard (being from
Dulinors Domain) was stocked w/ troops loyal to him and they picked off all of
the personal guards while Dulinor took out the Emperor, the Empress, the
Yerla-whatever ambassador and the Grand Princess.  To top it off, they had all
the other guards ammunition substitued w/ dummies (or was it blanks?).
Ammunition must be different in the 58 Century, since I can recognize the
(lack of) primer on a dummy and the lack of projectile (on a blank).   Well,
it could be they put a round on the blank (wasn't that how Brandon Lee was
killed?) or just put some fake primer on. (and possibly paint the tip the
appropriate Imperial color).  Ah well.

Gary

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 23:23:25 -0500
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@siscom.net>
Subject: Re: Cylons in Traveller

Derek Wildstar writes:

>If you're going to have Cylons in Traveller, remember that their rifles
>are mostly for show.  Their targetting systems are such that they cannot
>actually hit and mortally wound a human with their rifles, although they've
>(on rare occasion) managed to graze or wound someone.

   Sounds like the Imperial storm troopers in Star Wars.  Perhaps they
bought their electronic sights (the ones that are always misaligned so
they hit about half a meter to the left or right of the target) from the
same store in Hollywood.  :-)

>They do have large knives, which are deadly in close combat.

   I had forgotten about those.  Nasty things now that you mention it.

>Their fighters have equipment which improves their targetting abitilty,
>although most attacks result in near misses, grazes, or non-fatal hits,
>they've been known to hit and destroy targets in ship-to-ship combat.

   You forgot about their tendency to do suicide runs into the fighter
bays of the Galactica.  You almost get the impression that the Colonial
fighters were merely a distraction that kept them from their real
goal--disable the Galactica and render the rest of the fleet
defenseless.  Sound tactics actually.

>[As I understand it, the network censors refused to allow a robot to use a gun
>to shoot and kill a human being on TV (shoot and wound was OK, however).

   So strafing innocent civilians as they did in the pilot was fine then
huh?  I'm not so sure about that one.  Could just be one of those
Hollywood coincidences.

Regards,

Harold

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 00:19:28 -0500
From: Mark Urbin <eclipse@ma.ultranet.com>
Subject: Traveller on Yahoo (was Traveller promotion ideas)

Chris Griffen <cgriffen@cisco.com> types:
>Eris Reddoch wrote:
>>And why are so few Traveller pages listed on Yahoo?  Is it because we have
>>to fill out a form and *we* don't?
>Not hardly.
>I've submitted my page to Yahoo *at least* two dozen times, but I never get
>a response. It appears that they just ignore submissions unless they are
>for the higher traffic areas.

    I think it's more of a case of getting lost in the flood.   I got the
Doc Savage FAQ listed first try.  The Kempo/Kenpo FAQ listing took three
times before I got a response.  The Space Vermin listings in the RPG
section got listed in a try or two also.



- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
It was a typical net.exercise -- a screaming mob pounding on a greasy spot 
on the pavement, where used to lie the carcass of a dead horse.
                 http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 21:42:00 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: Traveller Anime

Derek Wildstar wrote:

>Here's a frightening thought: assign Nuku-Nuku and Eimi as a backup team
>for Kei and Yuri (I just finished watching all three volumes of _All-Purpose
>Cultural Cat-Girl Nuku-Nuku_; the first was definitely the best - throwing
>a telephone pole through a gunship is an imaginative way of disabling it,
>particularly with the comment 'I am _not_ a war machine!_.)

<swoon>  Move over, Spofulams.  I think I'm in love yet again with yet
another embarrasingly juvenile pulp-fictional character.


Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 21:41:50 +0800
From: kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject: Re: >*field mice*.

Michael Peters wrote:
[snip]
>But Kenji, I've always considered you to be the prime example of the
>Morality of the List!

Hm... I think I'll just take that as a compliment.

And as incitement.

Over on the TravLang list we've been discussing Barbie.  Does she exist in
Milieu Zero?  What sort of theme sets and outfits does she have?  What are
the different social movements, religions, and terrorist organizations that
are based on her?  What happened to Ken?

In a sort of seizure or fit or something I accidentally designed a
Barbie-sized starship (using Andy Akin's bodacious FFS2 spreadsheet), which
I unfortunately didn't keep a copy of here at my apartment.  But just you
wait.  Once I get back to the office on Tuesday, it's coming to a TML near
you.  (Batteries not included.)

Can we please postpone this silly subsidized merchant THUDDD design?
OBVIOUSLY, the Barbie Star Cruiser(tm) line of products are a much more
pressing need for Traveller players as well as Cleon's Imperium.  ISBA
needs to get its priorities straight, if you ask me!

In morality,

Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 00:42:33 -0500
From: Derek Wildstar <wildstar@qrc.com>
Subject: IISS Protective Detail

>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
>One thing that's bothered me for years... Where In The Hell was Strephon's
>IISS Protective Detail??  These guys are supposed to be within a few feet
>of the Emperor's person at all times, and take bullets for him!  did
>Dulinor get to them?  Were they withdrawn because the Emperor was actually
>a clone?

From the various Canon accounts (Rebellion Sourcebook and Digest #9), there
doesn't seem to have been one, period.  Security is supposed to be provided
by two honor guards: one drawn from the military services, and one drawn
from each Archduke's domain.

When Dulinor assasinated Strephon, the military guard was present, but their
weapons were useless, since they had been issued blanks by a palace armorer 
under Dulinor's control.  The Domain guard was from Dulinor's own domain, and
(of course) was comprised only of individuals loyal to Dulinor.  During the
assasination attempt, the domain guards were tasked with eliminating the
Emperor's military guards.

The assasination itself was conducted immediately after Strephon greeted
Dulinor, and therefore at effectively contact range.  Even had there been
such a detail present, there would have been no way to get into position in
time.

It's worth noting that an Aslan ambassador did manage to interpose himself
between Dulinor and the Princess.  Unfortunately, this only caused Dulinor
to expend an extra bullet.


                                        --- Derek Wildstar

wildstar@qrc.com -------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 07:20:48 GMT
From: jlindsay@direct.ca (James Lindsay)
Subject: Re: Project Longbow?

On Sat, 3 Jan 1998 15:28:59 -0500, Robin Cantin wrote:

> OK, I'm new to the list (hi everyone) and I have a few questions from my
> reading of the Survival Margin supplement for CT. They've probably been
> discussed here before, but since they're not in the "discussed to death"
> section of the FAQ, I'll risk it.
> 
> What the Hell is Project Longbow?
> Yes I know, it's a long-range communication project that was abandoned. Yet
> obviously Strephon uses it to contact... "an empress"?!?
> And who are Pentecost and the others? What's that thing who's coming? Any
> information in the supplements I didn't buy?

The following was posted by a fellow TMLer over a year ago.  'ere goes...


=============


The material on Project Longbow is copied verbatim from the Library Data
section of the TNE: The Regency Sourcebook and, as such, is copyrighted in
full by Far Futures.  This posting and future postings are in response to
Marc Miller's request for the info.  By the way, if you all get the chance
to pick up a copy of the Sourcebook, it's worth it (IMHO) just for the
background on the technological breakthroughs which are (will be?) starting
to happen around 1200+.

GENERAL INFO

Project Longbow: "Long" Baseline Observation Window, the name for a
system created in the 800s for observation of the galactic core and
the Zhodani axis of exploration toward the core. Longbow was the
largest known application of aperture synthesis (see Fire, Fusion, &
Steel page 50) ever constructed, and was a deep Imperial secret
throughout its existence. Longbow was created to observe the Zhodani
core expeditions, and, after many decades of data accumulation and
calibration was actually able to measure Zhodani shipping activity
along the core axis. Because sensor signatures propagate at the speed
of light, the observations were not in real time. Rather, the deeper
into the core the sensor "looked", the older the signatures. Beyond a
range of 1500 parsecs, whose EMS radiation had been traveling for
about 4900 years, the Zhodani had not yet arrived in the time-space
observation window or TSOW (1100-4900= -3800, and the first Zhodani
Core Expedition only began in -4000). Thus the first Zhodani
expedition was being observed at a range of around 1500 parsecs while
the seventh expedition (which departed in 750) was being observed at
a range of only 110 parsecs in the year 1100. Observations of more
recent events could only be made by moving the observing sensors
nearer the target. (Conversely, observations of older events could be
made by moving to an observation point much farther away from the
event. Naturally this capability was only possible with jump drives
that could move observers faster than light itself.)
   The Longbow collector plane was located in the Depot/Lishun
(1219 Lishun) system as part of the sprawling Imperial Navy facility
there, aiding in its concealment. The collector plane was a disk of
billions of linked receiver elements 46 billion kilometers in diameter,
the size of the orbit 12 orbital disk (TNE page 195). This collector
yielded a resolution at 1500 parsecs of 10 meters in long-wavelength
infrared, and of half a meter in visible light.
   Strephon was at Depot/Lishun observing Longbow activities when
Dulinor assassinated one of his ceremonial doubles at Capital on
132/1116.
   A more ambitious project, Longbow II, based on the lessons learned
from the first Longbow, was begun under Strephon's direction in 1103.
This project would use the entire width of the Imperium as its long
baseline. With its sensor termini located in the Spinward Marches and
Antares Sectors, in resolution but not sensitivity, Longbow replicated a
passive sensor dish with a diameter of 160 parsecs (30 trillion
kilometers), sensitive in all electronic bands, from gamma and x-rays
down through visible light and infrared all the way to long-wavelength
radio. Longbow would be able to achieve a theoretical resolution of 0.05
centimeters at a range of 8000 parsecs, the distance to the galactic
core. However, unlike the original Longbow whose disk-shaped receiver
provided two-dimension resolution (width and length), Longbow II's long
baseline lay only in the width dimension, along the galactic plane. This
meant that this spectacular theoretical resolution was only in width,
not height. Longbow II data was to have been collected at all of the
listening points along the "bowline" and carried by jump-6 Imperiallines
couriers to its "focal point" at Depot/Lishun where the data would have
been synchronized (by such methods as pulsar emissions within the common
field of view of all the sensors), compiled, filtered, and enhanced by
lengthy and demanding computer runs.
   However, the calibration of such a complicated system was expected to
require decades if not centuries before meaningful observations on the
galactic core could be extracted, but the Civil War intervened,
destroying the project. All Longbow II data is presumed to have been
lost.

The following material is taken verbatim from the Referees Only section
of the TNE: Regency Sourcebook and, as such, is fully copyrighted by Far
Futures. Please bear in mind while you're reading that any text referred
to by the material below is not included and that these references are
included for completeness of the original text. All comments in braces
are my own.

REFEREES ONLY

   The Library Data entry is correct, although incomplete. After its
creation, the Longbow project became an umbrella organization for a
variety of long-range observation and intelligence gathering systems
focused on the Zhodani and galactic core, which included natural and
augmented psionics as well as the Longbow II project already discussed.
These included smaller versions of the Longbow VLB array, but placed
much closer to the core, many sectors to coreward of the Vargr extents.
These observations were carried across the light years to the Imperium
by relays of couriers, similar to the old Xboat network.
   Many of these observations were connected to ongoing psionic
research, particularly attempts to isolate the physical phenomena (as
opposed to supranormal phenomena, see Psionics, below) associated with
psionic activity. So in addition to collecting and processing EMS data
in the normal fashion, this EMS data was examined for evidence of
psionic activity by wiring human psions into the loop.
   Although there was little unambiguous evidence of psionic signals
being received this way, the research was continued as a great number of
useful data was being generated. (This included the creation of baseline
data on how typical EMS signals are perceived by psionic perception
which had many useful applications in signals processing technology, the
establishment of data protocols that would allow electronic storage of
telepathic or teleperceptive visions for later observation by other
psions, and, entirely by accident, the discovery of the amounts of
electronic information that could be pushed through a human brain
without burning portions of it out.
   Longbow observations in the last years before the disintegration of
the Imperium showed what appeared to be space combat along the core
axis, headed toward the Zhodani Consulate. Regency intelligence
agencies believe that this was connected to the observation of unusual
Zhodani naval activity in 1119 (see Survival Margin, pages 22-23).
These events presumably prompted the hasty core expedition of 1149
which ended in failure, and is in turn connected to the current
upheavals behind the Exodus.
   However, the final dramatic Longbow observation was actually
connected to the Imperium's disintegration, as it was the reason for
Strephon's absence from Capital on the day Dulinor assassinated one
of his doubles (see Survival Margin, pages 7-9). It was one of the
few unambiguous examples of the reception of psionic signals across
interstellar distances, and was dramatic enough and connected to
enough other events that it required the emperor's personal attention.
   The signal was carried by a normal EMS wavefront emanating from
the core, although of great strength and coherence. It was perceived
by psions as a human female, dressed in black, standing before a city
skyline. Also in the background was a scene of a desert with two
astronomical bodies hanging above the horizon.*
   This vision was projected into Strephon's mind by psion Jonathan
Crocker, the psionic relay on duty at the Longbow focal point during
Strephon's visit. Both Crocker and Strephon agreed that the vision
was not a "still picture," but a motion picture of a pregnant moment,
waiting for an event or a message to be delivered, in Crocker's
words, "one of those moments when the birds suddenly stop singing for
no reason." Whether this was their joint perception of a real
phenomenon or simply Strephon responding to Crocker's impression
embedded in the projection is not know.
   The woman was holding a staff which may have been technological in
function, and had a bearing of great, even regal, dignity which was
enhanced by the perceived timelessness of the image. Strephon
immediately began thinking of the woman as an empress.

* [See the front cover of the TNE rules book for these scenes. There
  was actually a GDW-sponsored contest to identify her when the book
  first came out - DJS]





James W. Lindsay   Vancouver, British Columbia
 "http://www.prosperoimaging.com/ground_zero"

 Money talks... it usually says "bend over"...

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 08:27:56 +0000
From: "Leszek Karlik, aka Mike" <trrkt@friko.onet.pl>
Subject: Re: Cylons in Traveller

On  3 Jan 98, Harold D. Hale disseminated foul capitalist propaganda 
by writing:

> Derek Wildstar writes:
> 
> >If you're going to have Cylons in Traveller, remember that their rifles
> >are mostly for show.  Their targetting systems are such that they cannot
> >actually hit and mortally wound a human with their rifles, although they've
> >(on rare occasion) managed to graze or wound someone.
> 
>    Sounds like the Imperial storm troopers in Star Wars.  Perhaps
>    they
> bought their electronic sights (the ones that are always misaligned
> so they hit about half a meter to the left or right of the target)
> from the same store in Hollywood.  :-)

Well, actually, in the first sequence we see the Stormtroopers in 
(boarding the Tantive IV), they do kill people. Lots of them. Just 
look at those Rebels fall... (YEAH!)

On the other side, our heroes have Dodge skills of 7D+, so... (I have 
discovered the secret of high skills in Star Wars... A Dodge above 7D 
is a so-called "cinematic dodge", where instead of moving out of the 
way, the Heroe subconsciously uses the force to deflect the shot. 
<grin>)


Leszek Karlik, aka Mike - trrkt@friko.onet.pl; http://www.wlkp.top.pl/~bear/mike; 
 Star Wars fan and Amber junkie; FIAWOL; WTF TKD TOO; 
 FL/GN Leszek/Raptor II/ISD Vanguard, (SS) (PC) (ISM) {IWATS-IIC} JH(Sith)/House Scholae Palatinae
  Dentists are not prejudiced - they hate everyone. 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 00:11:31 -0900
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@alaska.net>
Subject: Re: Metrics aren't Intuitive?  

"Richard A. Flores" <cybernot@gte.net> wrote

> From: Zane H. Healy <healyzh@ix.netcom.com>
> 
> 
> >>> Does a pound of silver weigh the same
> >>> as a pound of iron?
> 
> >>You're joking?
> 
> No, I wasn't joking.
> 
> >>And which falls to the earth faster?
> 
> Essentially they will fall at the same rate; however, 
> if you're splitting hairs, the pound of silver will hit 
> the ground first (even though it weighs less).

> The subject under discussion when the question 
> was posed was one of Measures and Standards.  
> The key word here is Standards.  There is a 
> different standard for precious metals (like silver) 
> than there is for common substances (like iron 
> and feathers).  So, the two questions about 
> comparable weights are fundamentally different.

Even if we are talking about bars of the same mass there are many other
complications at work.

If you wish to be truly pedantic about the whole thing I must point out
that silver is denser than iron.  Therefore one pound of silver will be
smaller than one pound of iron.  If you are not in a vaccuum the larger
bar of iron will have a great wind resistance than the bar of silver,
therefore it will fall more slowly.

Your original statement was that you were releasing these bars from an
equal height.  However since the bar of iron is larger than the bar of
silver its center of mass will not be in the same place as the center of
mass of the bar of silver.  if the bottoms of the two bars are at an
equal height the center of mass of the iron bar will be at a higher
altitude.  If the centers of mass of the two bars are at an equal height
the bottom of the bar of iron will be lower.

If the bars of silver are carefully calculated to have the same unit
mass per unit of height, and therefore have their vertical centers of
mass at the same height the iron bar will have to be wider, longer, or
both.

Another question that arises is whether the bars are being dropped with
their long axis parallel to or perpendicular to the ground ?  Are they
being dropped like this
	_____		_________

or like this ?			

			|
	|		|
	|		|
	|		|
	|		|
			|

To be even more pedantic I should note that silver and iron have
different heat conductivities and therefore will absorb a differing
ammount of heat from the air during the fall.  They also have different
albedos and will therefore absorb a different ammount of light, and
therefore heat, from whatever source of illumination, if any, is
present.  Therefore the bars will be at different temperatures.  The
warmer bars molecules will be moving faster and it will have expanded
more during the fall.  Therefore it will not have to fall as far and
will strike the ground first ceteris paribus.  We should also note that
the bars do not merely fall toward the earth their mass also pulls the
earths mass toward them.  Since the iron bar is less dense the effect of
its atoms pulling on the earth mass have a different effect than the
atoms of the silver bar, which will be closer together, will.  Since
iron is more reactive than silver the iron bar will react with the
oxygen in the air (rust) more than the silver bar will during the period
of their fall.  Therefore it will add oxygen atoms to its outer surface
thereby increasing its mass during the course of the fall.  Therefore
two bars that mass the same ammount at time of release will not mass the
same at the moment of impact.  

All of these effects are so small that they can be ignored "in real
life" but they do exist.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 20:04:39
From: Ian or Katts <ianw@orac.net.au>
Subject: TL9 PAW

More thoughts about lo-tech system defense.

A TL9 32 m long, 4 m diameter PAW takes up 937 m3, masses 1412 tons, costs
MCr 47 and takes up 12.57m2 of surface area. It puts out 1024 megajoules to
38 000 kilometers, which translates to a damage value of 156 (i.e. it
punches 7.5 cm of superdense). The beam pointer is a 90 000km model.

It requires an input of 5120 megajoules, so a 90 megawatt power plant will
allow a shot every minute.

Now, on one hand this is appallingly short range. On the other hand, it
isnt that bad for TL9 - better than most sane and reasonable TL9 lasers
manage, for example.

I could imagine a number of worlds with these guarding military bases on
airless moons, or with these in orbit, encased by some ungodly thickness of
composite laminates.

Ian Whitchurch 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 05:13:49 +0000
From: "Suzette C. Dollar" <suzd@pop.goodnet.com>
Subject: (Fwd) Barbie's Starship

Since Kenji indicated he would be posting this to the list on Monday, 
I thought I'd go ahead and forward the original ;>

Suz

- ------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
Date:          Fri, 2 Jan 1998 12:03:58 -0800
To:            travlang@mail.execnet.com
From:          kenji@accessone.com (Kenji Schwarz)
Subject:       [TravLang] Barbie's Starship
Reply-to:      TravLang@mail.execnet.com

Barbie? Class Toy Spaceship (FF&S v2)
Designed by Maadeli, LIC

Statistics
Tons: 1std (AF Dome Hypersonic)   Volume: 14m3    Mass (L/C): 7t/6t
Crew: 2/2   Cargo: 0.01std (1 mini hatch/Hdl:1x100kg)
Passengers High/Med: 2/0       Passengers Low: 0   Cost: 1.020 MCr
Maintenance Points: 1          Dimensions: 1.8m x 3.6m x 3.6m
Tech Level: 12       Size: 6   Composite laminate hull.

Electronics
Controls: Dynamic, High automation. 1xFltComp (CM:0.35 CP:2.86). Terrain
following sensors (TF:480, NOE:160). Bridge.
Communications: 1xRadio (5,000km, 0.00MW). 1xLaser (500,000km, 0.00MW).
Sensors: 1xPEMS (12.5 [1.6mkm], 0.00MW). 1xAEMS (8, 0.03MW).
Signatures: Vis:-1.5, IR:-1.0 (-2.0 at 0MW), Act:0.0, Neu:-1, Grav:-2

Weaponry: None

Performance
2  Jump (0.1std/pc fuel)
1  Maneuver (/HEPlaR:1MW,8.0) ["Unrealistic" thrust calculation, of course]
0  Contra-grav
2,998kph/3,275kph Atmosphere (/Crus:2,249kph/2,456kph)
2  Power (/Fusion+:1MW,336.0)
0.3  Fuel (/Scoop:4 /Purif:13,0MW)
8/0/0/0/1  Accomodations
0 Life Support (/Type:Basic /FQ:Ex /'Sto)
1 G-Comp
0 ESA
0 Sandcasters
0 Damper Turrets
0 Damper Screen
0 Meson Screen
0 Force Field
0 Gravtics
0 [3] Armor, Structure 0

Features
1xDecontamination Airlock?
1xXeno Mystery Science Laboratory?
1xSpace Medicine Center?
1xExpedition Locker?
1xAerobics Exercise Room?
1xGlamor Beauty Salon?
1xSuper Chef Kitchen?
1xGreenhouse and Alien Petting Zoo?

Small Craft
1xSpacious Hangar (0.006std craft [0.34m3], 1 hatches) with Alien Safari
GravJeep? (sold separately)

Backups: (None)

Crew Details: 2xMnvr.

- -------------------------------------
Look what you guys made me do!  I oughta sue.

Thought I should share this here first, before sending it off to the TML.

I've assumed that Barbie? and her friends (sold separately) are 1/10 human
height, and thus occupy 1/1000 the volume.  All passenger space and
facilities were calculated at 1/500 normal scale, to allow for "breakaway"
components and access by the human owner.  Fusion Plus makes it all
possible.

Right now I'm feeling a little queasy and ashamed, so I'll leave the
humorous writeup for the list(s) to wrangle out.


Kenji Schwarz      kenji@accessone.com
TravLang Homepage: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/TLDL.html>
Lair of the PMPP: <http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/2662/sayat.html>

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1997 #2199
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